[siquisiri]

Blind support for a company only shows the company they dont have to fix their qc issues on future releases and this is a diservice to everyone.

 

[Scribby]

Due to the scale, I think there are some QC issues that simply cannot be avoided. It's blind loyalty if you buy every single product a company puts out and completely refuse to admit that the products have any faults. I will freely admit that pretty much every sixth scale company has produced weapons with fragile parts. I own a lot of them. It won't stop me from buying them, being very careful with them, and attempting to repair them if need be.

I'd rather have items that bring me joy and are a pleasure to collect and display than nothing at all.

 

[Hank McCoy]

So far, no one has answered two of my questions - 'Would you accept a transmission failure with a new car or a leaky roof in a new house.' The products in this hobby are no different. Over the top prices combined with failed products should NOT be acceptable to any consumer. Perhaps the problem here may be psychological but that on its own is NOT solving the problems. I'm quite sure everyone here has had a maddening issue with some sort of product. All of us have been angry with these situations. We've seen that certain 1/6th manufacturers failed and gone out of business - but that has not helped the victims,- nor themselves, - nor the hobby. With essentially all 1/6 items being produced and wholesaled from a certain Asian country which generally, does not seem to care about consumer (or retailer's) opinions or concerns, we, the 1/6th community are guilty of letting them get away with it. If, as mentioned in one reply, we are a very small community of consumers - should we continue to let ourselves be victimized ? Quote from Scotty -'Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.' Hopefully this quote from Star Trek (NOT me !) might wake some people up ! I'm about to quit the 1/6th hobby. Many probably have, already. Many more will be forced out by costs alone. Is this what the industry wants ? Is this what this community wants ? I don't have the answer but I at least think I've tried to help with my comments. Any positive suggestions, folks ? These problems aren't going to go away on their own, they will probably kill the hobby.

 

[DeltaForceChung]

So far, no one has answered two of my questions - 'Would you accept a transmission failure with a new car or a leaky roof in a new house.' The products in this hobby are no different. Over the top prices combined with failed products should NOT be acceptable to any consumer. Perhaps the problem here may be psychological but that on its own is NOT solving the problems. I'm quite sure everyone here has had a maddening issue with some sort of product. All of us have been angry with these situations. We've seen that certain 1/6th manufacturers failed and gone out of business - but that has not helped the victims,- nor themselves, - nor the hobby. With essentially all 1/6 items being produced and wholesaled from a certain Asian country which generally, does not seem to care about consumer (or retailer's) opinions or concerns, we, the 1/6th community are guilty of letting them get away with it. If, as mentioned in one reply, we are a very small community of consumers - should we continue to let ourselves be victimized ? Quote from Scotty -'Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.' Hopefully this quote from Star Trek (NOT me !) might wake some people up ! I'm about to quit the 1/6th hobby. Many probably have, already. Many more will be forced out by costs alone. Is this what the industry wants ? Is this what this community wants ? I don't have the answer but I at least think I've tried to help with my comments. Any positive suggestions, folks ? These problems aren't going to go away on their own, they will probably kill the hobby.

--

Maybe the hobby needs to be/to go on the brink of being killed by the manufacturers that don't listen/read constructive feedback with regards to their design/quality and how it affects the hobby?

Whether the hobby dies or not, many of us will carry on in one form or another. The manufacturers will not as long as they maintain the view they their doing nothing wrong because their so ignorant and oblivious to their shortcomings.

The current/ongoing issue with the design defect and fragility of the Russian machine gun by DAM is very obvious issue.

Silly @$$ question, but anyone who purchased the <CENSORED>ING gun and/or the boxed figure e-mail DAM about the issue and/or tell the retailer about it? If not, then why asides from posting about the issue here and elsewhere, but not directly to DAM even if they don't respond? If enough people let them know and make the issue very visisble online such as on their Facebook page, then eventually they'll know they <CENSORED>ED up?

Then again . . . if many of us who complain don't that at in the least then we're definitely part of the God damn problem/vicious cycle.

 

[AdamC]

In one camp you have modelers and enthusiasts who want every little ounce of detail and are willing to trade off robustness for that detail. In the other camp you have you have other participants of the hobby who prefer something more robust and easier to assemble. That is the more fundamental conflict rather than divisions in brand preferences. Brands cater more towards enthusiasts and tend to be more responsive to the praise they get for detail and complexity.

Many of these issues would be mitigated if there was a better support structure in place. Many brands do not follow up with customer inquiries or lack a distributor that services customers. The lack of spare parts provided to distributors in advance, and the willingness of distributors to perform the duties normally required of a distributor are ongoing issues. Language issues are a barrier and this is where a distributor needs to step up to the plate. The lack of exclusive distribution within a territory means few actually do this, as they don't want to service another distributors customers.

Production issues can't always be addressed due to the cost of retooling, but there are brands who listen to criticism and refine their production process. The problem with weapons is some of the designs are one offs and mass production issues aren't always easily identified in a prototype stage where the items are much more fragile. That is where having spares available, and an easy workflow for consumers to follow would pay dividends. PD's recent example with his Toys City defective helmet is a good example of shortcomings of the existing system.

If customers take a passive approach to issues nothing ever gets addressed. As long as you distinguish between design/qc issues and shipping or retailer related issues I think it's important to speak up, but doing so in a manner that a brand is more likely to read and respond to. We've seen some positive changes from the likes of General Sam identifying production defects and manufacturers like Easy & Simple subsequently improving designs.

 

[AdamC]

--

Maybe the hobby needs to be/to go on the brink of being killed by the manufacturers that don't listen/read constructive feedback with regards to their design/quality and how it affects the hobby?

Silly @$$ question, but anyone who purchased the <CENSORED>ING gun and/or the boxed figure e-mail DAM about the issue and/or tell the retailer about it? If not, then why asides from posting about the issue here and elsewhere, but not directly to DAM even if they don't respond? If enough people let them know and make the issue very visisble online such as on their Facebook page, then eventually they'll know they <CENSORED>ED up?

This is where the distributors need to be doing a better job. Few retailers have any direct contact with brands and the distributors need to take on a more active role rather than solely acting as a middle man taking a cut of the transaction. Up to half the margin on a figure goes to a distributor. In China, distributors play a much more active role in coordinating with retailers and end users. Language and logistics complicate that when you move outside of China.

 

[AdamC]

With essentially all 1/6 items being produced and wholesaled from a certain Asian country which generally, does not seem to care about consumer (or retailer's) opinions or concerns, we, the 1/6th community are guilty of letting them get away with it.

Some of them do care but they simply aren't setup to deal directly with end users, whether for language or logistics. Rightly or wrongly, they assume their distributors are doing their job in this area and leave the support to them. The lack of functional websites, links to distributors, etc all contribute to the problem.

 

[AdamC]

My thinking is that the ideas/designs in themselves are good, but only if each is done to the nth degree when put into production. Factor in mass production and material costs and that degree just isn't going to happen. From the numbers made it's clear that production costs aren't going to be the highest and neither are the worker's wages.

CHEERS!

Low wages aren't the issue, but rather the rising cost of wages which means corners get cut to hit a production cost target. Items that should get thrown out as defects end up getting used as production items. Figure bodies and footwear are a great example of this.

 

[Hank McCoy]

Adam C and Delta Force Chung - THANK YOU FOR ACTUALLY READING and UNDERSTANDING what I posted !!! I appreciate it very much. Bottom line - I spent big money and didn't get satisfaction. Honestly, I can't blame the retailers. It would be great if the manufacturers listened to them, even if they don't listen to the customer - but they don't listen to either of us. Unfortunately, the hobby itself seems to be the problem. If we all stopped buying the product, the manufacturer would fail, the retailer would go out of business and the hobby would disappear. Not a very positive result. ( See, I'm not just a pain in the a** complainer !) I'd like to hear from the retailers on this subject. I wonder what they think of the situation ? I know on one such problem I dropped doing business and move elsewhere. Frankly, I wasn't happy about it. Did they have a choice ? Not fair to me, not fair to them. Not fair to any of us ?

 

[crusader1xxx]

I think that one reason for this is that beggars can't be choosers - our hobby is unbelievably small compared to others, so we take what we get, and if we do get some scraps from something we WANT to be good, we don't want to hear that it's not. It's pretty simple psychology really.

This i think has more bearing on this hobby then people realise!

 

[Horst]

When I reentered the 1/6 hobby a few months ago, I was shocked that around 45 years of development did not change anything substantial...

My old Big Jim figures (comparable to GI Joe) of the seventies died all getting a hip fracture. And still - 45 years later - the figures easily get fractures. Unbelievable. But fact.

Even the metallic Phicens, which do not get bone fractures such easy, have problems with body disintegration like feet cuts or forearm crack growth ore whatever. It is surprising that such stuff is still "normal" and "accepted".

:sadpace

 

[Hank McCoy]

I think it's time to move on, it's Monday morning and I have to try and make a living and pay taxes. This has been a pleasant and interesting discussion and I'd like to thank everyone who participated. We didn't solve any problems and perhaps are looking at a not too promising future for this hobby but at least we discussed it and are thinking about it and on top of that, we were quite civilized about it ! Thanks again.

 

[Mordred]

My 0.02. In the past when Dragon and DID pumped out tons of WWII, there were lots of complaints on accuracy, color etc, but in the end it mattered not because the price was right ($30-40 for Dragon and $40-50 for DID, often for the same figure!).

Now, prices are $150-200+ and overall quality is better tan ever, but we will defend/put up with accuracy issues because there is nothing else out there comparable (no more competition). Also, we are addicted and will defend our addiction no matter what.:gimme

 

[cubanpete]

Why the irrational defense of defects? I'll tell you why. It's because we are grown men who buy ridiculously expensive dolls. The innate awkwardness of this condition and the buyer's remorse that results from these purchases inevitably spawns defensive reactions to something that you just don't completely feel right about doing. Hence, defensiveness.

 

[DeltaForceChung]

Why the irrational defense of defects? I'll tell you why. It's because we are grown men who buy ridiculously expensive dolls. The innate awkwardness of this condition and the buyer's remorse that results from these purchases inevitably spawns defensive reactions to something that you just don't completely feel right about doing. Hence, defensiveness.

--

I'll put it this way.

You can take a pile of hot steaming $%^& and layer it in 24 carat gold, but at the end of the day it's a pile of hot steam $%^& that is layered in 24 carat gold.

Defensiveness indeed.

 

[Travis Bauman]

I have been quite irate at defects at points, the crappy design on HT Catwoman goggles, the super crappy design of SSC Jango Fett leg armor, etc.

I have also been forgiving of smaller companies that are trying to bring a niche product that interests me greatly but has a very small fan base or edition size. I recently saw photos of Asmus "factory" workers preparing the Mouth of Sauron and it was basically two girls pulling metal parts and sorting and two older guys working with airbrushes in a room. It gave me some insight into this smaller company that grows with each release. They have made some dire errors on their earlier products (Gandalf the White's squashed head, floppy bodies, etc) but in every case have or are working to rectify these problems for customers.

I feel your anger but lets face it, if your transmission fails in transit, people die. If your roof fails, your family could be in danger. The stakes are much less - you know 1st world/rich people problems.

I voice my disappointment vocally on here and on Sideshow Freaks. It doesn't win me fans but depending on how the criticisms are stated depends on how many people agree or knee jerk react with fanboyizms in response.

Several people in this thread hit the nail on the head why people defend their purchases and the companies they rally to.

 

[Michael Crawford]

Back in 2008 I wrote an article about this very thing -

Feature - Why Michael is Wrong - Another Pop Culture Collectible Feature by Michael Crawford, Captain Toy

Things have not changed at all, which is not surprising - humans haven't, so the driving forces for their actions aren't going to either. It's a long article, but it boils down to multiple things mentioned:

1 - some people are just naturally more optimistic and positive, finding good in everything.

2 - Emperor's New Clothes - I just paid $300 for that figure, how dare you say it's not perfect? You're saying what I bought wasn't good! I believe this is a LOT of the reaction you see with current figures.

3 - Company/License loyalty - it occurs in every thing we buy, Coke vs Pepsi, Apple vs IBM, etc. etc. etc. It can get so ridiculous it takes on a religious fervor.

4 - In hand vs not - It's pretty easy for someone who hasn't held a figure, worked with a figure, or experienced the problems themselves to be dismissive.

These things tend to happen when people actually care about the products or what they represent, versus something that's truly just a commodity. People care about their phone and develop a relationship with it and the company, and they are more likely to allow things to slide or accept issues the deeper that relationship becomes. When people don't form that bond, they are much more indignant when the product has issues. On the one hand, this behavior is quite annoying, and can hurt the industry, allowing issues to go unresolved. On the other, it indicates a market that's dedicated, a good thing for its longevity.

 

[Zondi]

My thing is, if I start complaining about everything and anything, even about things I am not interested in, I will start thinking about getting out of this hobby. I SHOULD get out as soon as possible. Seriously, this is about fun and recreation. It boggles me how some people could call this a hobby yet are unhappy about everything. (If this is your livelihood, then that's a different thing.)

Don't get me wrong, defects should be called out! Inaccuracies, to a degree, should be highlighted. If you're defending obvious flaws, then you should be flamed. So I agree with the lot of you. But some are just flat-out "haters". It makes me feel.... sad.

>Sniff<

Don't hate me.

 

[Spitfire]

I was involved in the model railroad hobby for many years and the exact same thing happened there too. Human emotions range from love to hate, and this is mirrored in our reactions to the things in our lives, from other people, to political parties, to our hobbies. As observers of this phenomenon, we tend to notice those on the extremes: the haters, who find fault with everything, and the fanboys, who forgive and defend every flaw in their chosen brand/team/political party. Both are kind of annoying because neither one is actually being objective or honest with themselves. A subset of the hater is the know-it-all, or more accurately "know more than you". That's a competitive thing I guess. I once entered a model of a city building with detailed interiors and exteriors into a model railroad contest. I saw a couple older men examining my model and moved in closer to hear what they were saying. They were scoffing at the tiny 2mm x 5mm licence plates I had put on the little cars, saying "Where is that even supposed to be from?" (In the end, my model won a prize and I never did see theirs, because they didn't have any.)

 

[rogerbee]

The 'in hand vs not' thing is a fun one. Quite often you don't need to see a figure in hand to know how bad it is. Sometimes, even the best pics can't hide it. The DX05 was a case in point. That was defended to the hilt, and yet, even the most ardent Indy fan knew deep down that HT had royally screwed them, the fact that it was a DX made the pill even harder to swallow.

The current SSC one is no different, the prototype was, on the face of it, pretty bad, so you kinda knew not to expect much from the production one, but, yet again it gets defended. When a company drops the ball so hard it is totally indefensible, but, the companies don't care as they know they've already got a great fat wad of cash from fanboy pre-orders.

CHEERS!