I agree completely. I was thinking about this the other day. Looking at my figures thinking about what has broken on which ones, I realised that the more expensive they are the easier they break. So far in my purchases Blitzway and Hot Toys are the most fragile. Sideshow would be next. The cheapest ones I haven't really had any problems with. If I have, I haven't minded because they were cheap.

 

some of us are such fan boys of certain manufacturers they take it personally when you say anything negative about such companies. I have rarely came across a defect in the figures that I choose to buy, but there have been a few. the main one that comes to mind is various Triad figures I bought, and the earlier Phicens before the SS bodies. I was one of the main ones bitching/complaining/ crying/ moaning whatever anyone on this site might call it of course there was those who lept to the defense.

 

The reason people defended certain flaws is because in the past every new Phicen product (or mention of Phicen) that debuted you would constantly make negative comments about them. I think in the beginning yes, people agreed but when it was every single time people were less willing to agree with you because by then it was just excessive.

I can understand your frustration with companies and you desire that things should not have flaws and that quality control should be on their game but we live in an imperfect world and the toys we buy are going to reflect that. This hobby is full of chance and nothing is ever 100% and it's a constant learning curve but for me, that's kinda the fun part.

 

If you say anything., and I do mean ANYTHING about hot toys, your soul might get eaten! At least that's how everybody makes it sound to me.
I've been saying this for the longest only to get bombarded with a bunch of crap, so I jus gave up. No point in arguing with overzealous people. Hell, people drank the Jim jones kool-aide, so .......

 

my answer is who really knows? we need to know what is right and wrong with a figure before we buy it.

 

There are those that love everything that certain companies produce and then there are those that hate everything that certain other companies produce. That love or hate might not seem logical or warranted to unbiased parties but that's just how it is and it's not going to change. Also there are those that have expectations that are too high, while others seem to have expectations that are so low that even a high priced mediocre product will please them if it's from a company that they are a fan of. Add to that the people that have been burned on purchases (or perceive that they have been) and those that are afraid to be too critical of certain products because they believe that too much criticism will mean that a manufacturer abandons a certain product line. Factor all of that together and comments can get heated when those products or companies are discussed. The same is true for just about any consumer products from video games to frozen pizzas. There are always seems to be those on opposite extremes and those that fall somewhere in the middle and there probably always will be.

 

This x 100

The same even applies to retailers in this hobby. People seem to have their favorites (as do I), and that's fine, but if something negative is pointed out... Oh geez, you'd think someone just kicked their dog. Personally, I think Sideshow is a joke when it comes to their "Rewards" points system. From what I've seen they seem to charge full MSRP under the guise of the buyer earning these points which are about half of what you would have saved if you just shopped around for the best deal. So are you really gaining anything, when the chances are good you could have just saved that money, and probably more, up front if you bought the item from someone else?

 

My thinking is that the ideas/designs in themselves are good, but only if each is done to the nth degree when put into production. Factor in mass production and material costs and that degree just isn't going to happen. From the numbers made it's clear that production costs aren't going to be the highest and neither are the worker's wages.

The standard fanboy defences don't cut it, but, neither do the QC errors. At the end of the day, if the hobby stops being fun, stop the hobby.

I now collect 90's garage kits, and, thanks to contacts I had back in the day, I have been able to get a fair collection together. The stuff I have now that was done then is all top notch for quality and some of the sculpting is right up there with what you'd find now. The prices back then were good, and, surprisingly they still are. I'm enjoying myself as much now as I did then as all factors are as I want them, quality at a good price.

CHEERS!

 

My thinking is that the ideas/designs in themselves are good, but only if each is done to the nth degree when put into production. Factor in mass production and material costs and that degree just isn't going to happen. From the numbers made it's clear that production costs aren't going to be the highest and neither are the worker's wages.

CHEERS!

Low wages aren't the issue, but rather the rising cost of wages which means corners get cut to hit a production cost target. Items that should get thrown out as defects end up getting used as production items. Figure bodies and footwear are a great example of this.

 

I think you misconstrued the post about the DAM Toys PKP. I was not defending them, and if you have ever read my posts about a review I have done, I let them have it!
We all know about weapons. As they have gotten more complicated, more problems are to arise. Look at the 21C ones and look what they produce now. I am just saying that I prefer the ones they make now over 21C ones. Now some would say they wished that they would not make them so complicated with all the moving parts, because with each moving part they have to assemble, that is more cost to us. So be it...They may be imperfect and break easily, but...I still prefer these.

 

Interesting question - I have noticed this as well, even if I haven't followed your specific issue where someone defended some flaw, but in general, yes, flaws are indeed defended - one example I come to think of was the Vietnam-era US cavalryman from ACI (I think), where it was pointed out several things that were wrong - some tabs on the flashlight should not have been there, the coat was not long enough, the boots were kind of wrong(ish) and I think there was something about the backpack as well - I don't remember the details, but the flaws were quite many. And no matter what, people kept defending the figure (in the end, I do think the company fixed at least the flashlight, so critizism can be good if it comes in a timely and constructive manner), despite the obvious flaws.

I think that one reason for this is that beggars can't be choosers - our hobby is unbelievably small compared to others, so we take what we get, and if we do get some scraps from something we WANT to be good, we don't want to hear that it's not. It's pretty simple psychology really.

 

After reading the 3rd sentence, i believe that you have just bought Damtoys PKP gunner . IAnyways, i completely agree with you!

 

It happens when people become fans, not collectors. Humans have a tendency to make what they like part of their very identity and they attach emotion to those things. When this happens they are unable to separate themselves from the subject matter and so take any criticism of it as a personal attack on them. This usually happens with religion, patriotism and political affiliation but also it can be found in comic/movie fan-bases and with brand loyalty (Apple fans, Marvel fans, DC fans, X-box fans, Hot Toys fans).
Until people are taught how to accept criticism of the things they love and learn to separate themselves from those things it will continue.

 

That's why I left a Facebook group dedicated to one manufacturer's figures, it was becoming silly. People paying a small fortune for a large item... of which several had serious flaws. That people accepted these without fuss just had me gobsmacked.

 

Well said, jaztermaheal. I'm reading the newspaper concerning a similar but much more destructive subject. A local city is debating setting up a 'safe injection site' for drug addicts. Some feel this would only enable users. The other side thinks it would make it safer, therefore better. Doesn't seem to be any real ideas to stop the base problem from either side. Makes one wonder about addiction to hobbies ...

 

My most recent issue was with the Threezero Chappie figure which is an amazing figure, except that small parts on the arms weren't glued on correctly and the toe joints are made with paper thin plastic rings that snap with just a slight touch. That could have been avoided with just a change of material for those toe joint parts from plastic to metal, or just not have a joint there for more durability.

I will always try to avoid figures with rubber whenever I can as no company seems to be able to use anything durable enough and they often use it as an easy way out of making well hidden sculpted plastic joints.

 

Two words-Triads Eva!!!

 

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More than two words.

Triad's EVA, EVO, ALPHA, OTAKU, and pretty much every God damn boxed figure they ever produced because Louie Tran took short cuts in quality and money wise that <CENSORED>ED Triad Toys from ever recovering. He actually thought no one would notice or being critical of some compromises.

They're only true lasting worthwhile 1:6 products were their early production run clothing sets of which all have sold out. The $%^& that has yet to sell out speaks volumes.

Of course, you'll never ever hear/read him admit that much at all.

My experience/perspective regarding Triad Toys is like being a loyal member of Scientology and then discovering the truth and leaving and validating what others have said (right, wrong, indifferent) about them and learning from the experience.

<CENSORED> Triad Toys.

 

This has ever been the tale, here and no doubt elsewhere. The brand may change, but the critic or complimenter often finds themselves engulfed in partisan contention. Currently, it may be worse, as society in general has embraced bickering behavior as a norm, even preferable to thoughtful discourse.

Focused and civil discussion, along with a resilient hide. These are the keys to genuine discussion, diametric to argument for its own sake, taking things too personally, and exercising repeated, endless ranting.

If you have an opinion, state it. The results, those are something you cannot guarantee.

 

I claim no absolute loyalty to any particular brand. These days, I am primarily a weapons collector, and DAM, E&S, and SS are the three companies turning out quality products in that field.

The bulk of my weapons collection is DML. I have practically every firearm DML has ever made, aside from a few I've never been able to find (Wes Worthy's Enfield No. 4(t)) or have been too lazy to pick up, despite stock still being available (Enfield Mk. III, M3 Grease Gun, Johnson LMG). But my point is this: though dated, a lot of their firearms still hold up quite well. Not all do. When I can replace a DML weapon with something done better by a newer offering, I will. Heck, I even have a few 21C firearms that I think are either good enough to be on display or haven't been made better by anyone else. HT is very, very hit or miss on their guns because they tend to focus more on their headsculpts and clothing. Weapon scaling, paint, and accuracy issues abound. But they've contributed quite a few nice pieces to my arsenal.

Broken parts, especially those on firearms, are nothing new. The DML P90 suppressor and M14 flash hider are well documented as being notoriously fragile. I have had M249 and AUG barrels break cleanly off at the join. A DAM M14 rear sight snapped right off and was lost. I had to glue my DAM AS Val's scope in place because the pins broke off. My HT SIG556's stock broke off when I was posing a figure with it. I had to glue several parts of an E&S HK416 back together. SS M4/M16 barrel retention rings are prone to breakage and often fail to mitigate barrel wobble. Etc, etc, etc. But it's not enough to get me to leave the hobby, because the positives outweigh the negatives. I accept that at this small scale, it is difficult to achieve a balance of appearance and solid construction. I always strive to be very careful with my weapons collection, because I know that most of it will not be easily replaced.

As long as a manufacturer, any manufacturer, produces a scale firearm that meets my criteria, I will support them. Just because one particular manufacturer produces a couple of fragile items doesn't mean that all of their output is similarly flawed.

 

Blind support for a company only shows the company they dont have to fix their qc issues on future releases and this is a diservice to everyone.

 

Due to the scale, I think there are some QC issues that simply cannot be avoided. It's blind loyalty if you buy every single product a company puts out and completely refuse to admit that the products have any faults. I will freely admit that pretty much every sixth scale company has produced weapons with fragile parts. I own a lot of them. It won't stop me from buying them, being very careful with them, and attempting to repair them if need be.

I'd rather have items that bring me joy and are a pleasure to collect and display than nothing at all.

 

So far, no one has answered two of my questions - 'Would you accept a transmission failure with a new car or a leaky roof in a new house.' The products in this hobby are no different. Over the top prices combined with failed products should NOT be acceptable to any consumer. Perhaps the problem here may be psychological but that on its own is NOT solving the problems. I'm quite sure everyone here has had a maddening issue with some sort of product. All of us have been angry with these situations. We've seen that certain 1/6th manufacturers failed and gone out of business - but that has not helped the victims,- nor themselves, - nor the hobby. With essentially all 1/6 items being produced and wholesaled from a certain Asian country which generally, does not seem to care about consumer (or retailer's) opinions or concerns, we, the 1/6th community are guilty of letting them get away with it. If, as mentioned in one reply, we are a very small community of consumers - should we continue to let ourselves be victimized ? Quote from Scotty -'Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.' Hopefully this quote from Star Trek (NOT me !) might wake some people up ! I'm about to quit the 1/6th hobby. Many probably have, already. Many more will be forced out by costs alone. Is this what the industry wants ? Is this what this community wants ? I don't have the answer but I at least think I've tried to help with my comments. Any positive suggestions, folks ? These problems aren't going to go away on their own, they will probably kill the hobby.

 

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Maybe the hobby needs to be/to go on the brink of being killed by the manufacturers that don't listen/read constructive feedback with regards to their design/quality and how it affects the hobby?

Whether the hobby dies or not, many of us will carry on in one form or another. The manufacturers will not as long as they maintain the view they their doing nothing wrong because their so ignorant and oblivious to their shortcomings.

The current/ongoing issue with the design defect and fragility of the Russian machine gun by DAM is very obvious issue.

Silly @$$ question, but anyone who purchased the <CENSORED>ING gun and/or the boxed figure e-mail DAM about the issue and/or tell the retailer about it? If not, then why asides from posting about the issue here and elsewhere, but not directly to DAM even if they don't respond? If enough people let them know and make the issue very visisble online such as on their Facebook page, then eventually they'll know they <CENSORED>ED up?

Then again . . . if many of us who complain don't that at in the least then we're definitely part of the God damn problem/vicious cycle.

 

In one camp you have modelers and enthusiasts who want every little ounce of detail and are willing to trade off robustness for that detail. In the other camp you have you have other participants of the hobby who prefer something more robust and easier to assemble. That is the more fundamental conflict rather than divisions in brand preferences. Brands cater more towards enthusiasts and tend to be more responsive to the praise they get for detail and complexity.

Many of these issues would be mitigated if there was a better support structure in place. Many brands do not follow up with customer inquiries or lack a distributor that services customers. The lack of spare parts provided to distributors in advance, and the willingness of distributors to perform the duties normally required of a distributor are ongoing issues. Language issues are a barrier and this is where a distributor needs to step up to the plate. The lack of exclusive distribution within a territory means few actually do this, as they don't want to service another distributors customers.

Production issues can't always be addressed due to the cost of retooling, but there are brands who listen to criticism and refine their production process. The problem with weapons is some of the designs are one offs and mass production issues aren't always easily identified in a prototype stage where the items are much more fragile. That is where having spares available, and an easy workflow for consumers to follow would pay dividends. PD's recent example with his Toys City defective helmet is a good example of shortcomings of the existing system.

If customers take a passive approach to issues nothing ever gets addressed. As long as you distinguish between design/qc issues and shipping or retailer related issues I think it's important to speak up, but doing so in a manner that a brand is more likely to read and respond to. We've seen some positive changes from the likes of General Sam identifying production defects and manufacturers like Easy & Simple subsequently improving designs.

 

Adam C and Delta Force Chung - THANK YOU FOR ACTUALLY READING and UNDERSTANDING what I posted !!! I appreciate it very much. Bottom line - I spent big money and didn't get satisfaction. Honestly, I can't blame the retailers. It would be great if the manufacturers listened to them, even if they don't listen to the customer - but they don't listen to either of us. Unfortunately, the hobby itself seems to be the problem. If we all stopped buying the product, the manufacturer would fail, the retailer would go out of business and the hobby would disappear. Not a very positive result. ( See, I'm not just a pain in the a** complainer !) I'd like to hear from the retailers on this subject. I wonder what they think of the situation ? I know on one such problem I dropped doing business and move elsewhere. Frankly, I wasn't happy about it. Did they have a choice ? Not fair to me, not fair to them. Not fair to any of us ?

 

I think that one reason for this is that beggars can't be choosers - our hobby is unbelievably small compared to others, so we take what we get, and if we do get some scraps from something we WANT to be good, we don't want to hear that it's not. It's pretty simple psychology really.

This i think has more bearing on this hobby then people realise!

 

When I reentered the 1/6 hobby a few months ago, I was shocked that around 45 years of development did not change anything substantial...

My old Big Jim figures (comparable to GI Joe) of the seventies died all getting a hip fracture. And still - 45 years later - the figures easily get fractures. Unbelievable. But fact.

Even the metallic Phicens, which do not get bone fractures such easy, have problems with body disintegration like feet cuts or forearm crack growth ore whatever. It is surprising that such stuff is still "normal" and "accepted".

:sadpace

 

I think it's time to move on, it's Monday morning and I have to try and make a living and pay taxes. This has been a pleasant and interesting discussion and I'd like to thank everyone who participated. We didn't solve any problems and perhaps are looking at a not too promising future for this hobby but at least we discussed it and are thinking about it and on top of that, we were quite civilized about it ! Thanks again.