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Is the info on the above pic I posted

"FBI special agent Mike Stokes, center, shows Houston Texans Bryan Pittman, left, and Jarrod Baxter, right, an MP5/10 sub-machine gun Tuesday, July 11, 2005 at the FBI training facility in Conroe, Texas. Seven players from Houston's NFL franchise visited the facility for instruction in gun safety, SWAT assaults and sniper shooting. (AP Photo/Pat Sullivan)"

Houston has a nice training facility.

Here is some info on future transitions for FLE

"December 5, 2003
DEA Awards 5 Year Contract to Rock River Arms.

(Colona, IL)¡KRock River Arms has the reputation for producing top quality AR15s and custom 1911s. What sets Rock River Arms apart from the competition is their versatility to produce weapons to such rigorous specifications.

Many elite AR15 manufacturers submitted weapons for approval but fell short during the abuse test, which was the initial phase of testing. Rock River Arms AR15 .223/5.56 NATO met the requirements and specifications set forth by DEA. The abuse test consisted of the parts interchange test, the extreme temperature test, the drop test, the throw test and the corrosion test. In the parts interchange test, the carbines were field stripped. The major component parts were randomly interchanged and reassembled. Each carbine was then loaded and fired and had to perform without malfunction. During the extreme temperature test, the carbines were placed in a chamber and stabilized at a temperature of minus 20„a F for one hour. Then the weapons were removed and immediately fired at room temperature. Then the carbines were placed in a temperature chamber where it was stabilized at 120„a F for one hour then removed and immediately fired at room temperature. The weapon then moved on to the drop test from a height of 4 feet and dropped onto a concrete floor six different times on all sides of the carbine. After completing the drop safety test, the weapon was loaded and had to safely fire 20 rounds with no malfunction to pass. The throw test consisted of throwing the firearm from a height of four feet and over a distance of 15 feet, once on the right side and once on the left side, then must safely fire 20 rounds with no malfunction. It was then submerged in salt water and exposed to sand. After both tests the weapon had to function flawlessly.

Rock River Arms was one of the selected few that outperformed the other manufacturers and moved on to phase two of the testing. Phase two was the 5,000 round endurance/functional reliability test. The testing team consisted of members of the DEA and FBI Firearms Training Unit and the DEA and FBI armorers/gunsmiths. The team also tested for accuracy, dispersion and velocity.

Rock River Arms is supplying the DEA with their AR15 chambered in .223/5.56 NATO, equipped with an Eo Tech holo sight, a Surefire rail and white light, a Viking sling and an Eagle Industry carry case. The DEA awarded Rock River Arms the contract, followed by a substantial purchase order. The initial order will be delivered this month"

And here is HRT
Also good info on them here http://www.specwarnet.net/taclink/Federal/FBI_HRT.htm
 

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The Ump is awesome... I shot the Civillian USC carbine version... Great accuracy compaired to an UZI...

The Round is also larger... You can get a UMP in 9mm/.40 call too though.

The Uzi is a little out dated in my eye, and a UMP is more versitale (modular rails can be added)
Ump? Civillian USC? I couldn't hit jack **** with that thing ( maybe I'm just a bad shot)! And the guy kept on insisting that it was an asault rifle! Dam thing needs a ****ing key for the magazine catch WTF ( I live in Crapafornia, stupid gun laws )

Now the UZI, YEAAAAHHHHHH I can target shoot with that thing. Plus it's a Holy weapon since it's built and designed by the israeli's. I admit it's old but it was a forerunner design for future weapons to come, and has an interesting and combat tested history. :thumb
 

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God Bless America
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That's what I call superior firepower. :shades
 

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Tough choice, having shot AR15's in several configs (liking the M4 most), FALs, SIG500 series, AK's en Steyrs....

The one's in my collection I like most and are the one's I would call my weapon of choice right now...

Not necessarily in any given order..

AKS74 in 5,45x39, accurate enough up till 200 meters. Low recoil. With accesory rail optics versatile
AK102, mine's basicly a converted Saiga rifle. 5.56x45 mm.
Steyr AUG. AK's are what they are. Robust, reliable fieldbeasts. But the Steyr tops them in accuracy. If Steyr would produce an AUG in 5,45mm I would buy one.

Basicly I'm a firm believer of the 5,45mm round even though I have found some pretty decent 5,56mm loads that are doing the same devastating job the 5,45mm is doing in it's full metal jacket form.

Opticswise, the Leupold 1.5-5 MR/T scope was on my AK102 and on the AUG these days...
 

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there is no relation between stopping power and caliber. its a myth perpetuated by uninformed people. the only thing that really counts is hitting the target where it counts. as for my favorite:

pistol: M&P pistol
shotgun: benelli m4
carbine: m4 / socom 16
rifle: armalite sass
lmg: m249
mmg: m240
gl: m32

guess i like the us / military hardware. wish i could really have the last 3.
 

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(coughing politely)

Shot placement of course is the most important factor in putting your target down. Short of taking out someone's brain stem there is no 100% area that will put EVERY man down EVERY time.

Given the combat reality of fleeting, obscured, covered, doped up and body armored targets caliber decidedly makes a difference. 5.56 or 5.45 may go through certain walls but when 7.62 eats 18" trees and most walls/floors I will choose the larger caliber every time (that 25mm vaporizes people LOL).

Danger Close, I think your point is much more applicable to pistol ammo as the range is diminished significantly.

Personally I carry a P10 or P14LDA and in combat would carry the M4. Yes, I'm partial and am very comfortable with the M16 family (years of hauling it around). I love the 7.62 (specifically M14 family). It is an excellent caliber and weapon in all respects except in comparison to the weight of 5.56. When you have to suppress a target so yoor element can manuever its quantity of fire over accuracy that keeps the bad guys down (of course shots to the head everytime a bad guy peeks like in the movies is even better). A lot of ammo is very helpful.

Everyone has a favorite weapon and for different reasons. When I choose I take into account where I'm going to use the weapon. Since my experience is pretty conventional I shy away from the esoteric COOL weapons. You see you can't cross level ammo in the heat of the fight if your buddy uses a different weapon (of course this does not apply to 6mm BB's or paintball). Its hard to find spare parts in acombat zone (mags included).

I always chuckle at folks who prefer soviet block weapons. Besides their pros and cons you do know they sound different than "friendly" weapons? Hearing an AK in the next room might draw a grenade or a burst of 5.56 in the dark.

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade just a "little" dose of reality.

Pukingdog VERY FUNNY!!!
 

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yes it was in reference to pistol ammo in reference to another post.

dependent on the type of ammunition used in rifles can increase barrier penetration. i am with you on all the rifle stuff as i own the first four on the list and have had my share of time behind a trigger in foreign lands.:thumb

i have been packing the p14.45 limited for a decade or so, since i am not getting any younger or slimmer i now pack the M&P 40. its a weight off the belt that's for sure. now i am working on getting the M&P 45.

by the way, ak's jam a lot.:poke
 

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The Mighty Boosh
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I can't comment too much on long guns (except it would be a lot bigger than a .223) but for a side-arm I miss my Springfield factory compensated in .40 S & W. It was a tack-driver, and at least if not more accurate than my S & W 586 .357 mag.

(Now this is probably a hanging offence in the US, but I wouldn't have a 1911 .45 ACP unless it was the last gun in the world and I was surrounded by zombies. I've never shot one - including Gold Cups and race guns - that I could shoot accurately. But that's probably just me).
 

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Best to you Danger Close.

Action Man - no problem. A lot of folks have had the same issue. Its an American man thing. : P (just pulling your chain a little).
 

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wave man TDY staff
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Always have and always will luvs the 1911A1, tho they are a bit like White Castles. My Model29 falls into the "different tools for different jobs" category. The Model 500 S&W 4" I shot, if you hit the guy, I believe he's going down, and bonus - his buds will be dazed by the muzzle flash, if not incinerated by it, LOL. Admittedly, the real drawback to revolvers is round capacity.

Concerning shot placement, I've always remembered a story from the old American Rifleman "Armed Citizen" column:
Two guys in a line at a hardware store got into an arguement, the one guy pulls a .25 automatic and puts rounds into the second guy at close range, all in the forehead.
The guy falls back into a tool display, sprawled out. As the shooter is somewhat civil, he doesn't put any more rounds into the guy, but leans in to confirm status.
That's when one of the downed guy's hands close around a LHRN shovel handle, and he whangs the gunmen in the skull.

The shovel guy lives, all those slow FMJs ran around under the skin, rather than penetrating the skull. The gunmen is dead from masive head trauma.

There's a whole world of weaponry out there, including a lot of items not normally considered for lethal application. I guess to me the first choice would involve experience and comfort, and after that, adaptability.

If that guy's 25 had only been a 25mm 2-shot Bushmaster derringer.
 

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The Mighty Boosh
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Action Man - no problem. A lot of folks have had the same issue. Its an American man thing. : P (just pulling your chain a little).
:p :lol

I did have a friend who could use one - he worked in a gun shop in Jo'burg. Got the bus home one day and two guys came at him with knives - he put a .45 ACP into each of their heads, dead before they hit the floor. An SAP (South African Police) cop Said "Juss, that's only bloody good shooting heh?"

When I was in SA there was a report about an SAP (South African Police) cop putting 9 or 10 9mm's into a guy who then proceeded to spear the cop and kill him. The 9mm's were through and through's.

(Whilst I was there I bought a 2nd hand 4" Colt Python which came with 3 holster - one was an ankle holster, complete with sheepskin lining! I tried it once for a laugh, it was like walking around with an anchor stuck to your leg, and you would have needed huge bell-bottoms to hide it.)
 

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i believe that the .25 story relates to shot placement. to many variables in life, but the forehead has been known to deflect some bullets. recent story about a police officer shooting the hostage taker in the head with a single mp5 9mm. he lived but it knocked him the hell out.
 

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The Ump is awesome... I shot the Civillian USC carbine version... Great accuracy compaired to an UZI...

The Round is also larger... You can get a UMP in 9mm/.40 call too though.

The Uzi is a little out dated in my eye, and a UMP is more versitale (modular rails can be added)
you forgot .45 ACP ...

Die UMP gibt es in nur einer militärischen Ausführung, diese allerdings in drei unterschiedlichen Kalibern: Die UMP in 9 × 19 mm, .40 S&W und .45 ACP. Äußerlich sind die Varianten nicht leicht zu unterscheiden, abgesehen von der Magazinform (nur .45- ACP-Varianten nutzen ein gerades Magazin) und den Beschriftungen.
 

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the M1 Garand in 7.65x51 nato is still my favorite.

Styer and Sig made a copycat of this gun for a short time and i grap one of these.

i can shoot it with caliber size rubber balls only but its fun like hell.

 
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