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U.S. Marine Corps Veteran
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Great thread Will, and great replies (especially from Punisher as he has down range knowledge).

I have a few questions myself.

With guys wearing shingles for mobility inside of vehicles, what are they doing when they are dismounted and in a patrol situation? Are they donning a chest rig over the other kit, or is there some sort of backup ammo kit that they have? Most shingles carry three mags if I remember right, which seems a little light on ammo.

What is the typical weapons load out/basic load for conventional troops now? I know it varies from unit to unit and I suspect mission to mission as well, but is there a basic standard still?

Thanks for starting this up Will. This is the same reason I started that Comms thread up a while back...to educate those that wanted to learn a little bit.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Jeff

Basic load is still 7 mags. Most troops carry more (surprisingly the Rangers don't). Shingles can be stacked (which defeats the purpose) or you can place two end on end. Additional mags can be layered on those or placed on one's side or back.

Heard of guys using racks in Iraq to don them as they left the vehicle (personally found that strange, rather be uncomfortable than have to don stuff out the door to a firefight).

Molle is a pain in the ... to put together. Don't think many change their layout for every mission. A few adjustments sure but not a complete change. Also unlike the Marines vehicles in the Army are typically organic to the unit. You just don't link up and with them and say "today we're mounted". So the back and forth between mounted and dismounted isn't as dramatic a change as in Marine units. Guys that dismount find a happy median.
 

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Great thread Will, and great replies (especially from Punisher as he has down range knowledge).

I have a few questions myself.

With guys wearing shingles for mobility inside of vehicles, what are they doing when they are dismounted and in a patrol situation? Are they donning a chest rig over the other kit, or is there some sort of backup ammo kit that they have? Most shingles carry three mags if I remember right, which seems a little light on ammo.

What is the typical weapons load out/basic load for conventional troops now? I know it varies from unit to unit and I suspect mission to mission as well, but is there a basic standard still?

Thanks for starting this up Will. This is the same reason I started that Comms thread up a while back...to educate those that wanted to learn a little bit.

Jeff
I think I can help answer your question on the donning of chest rigs over body armor.... I'll keep it short so I don't bore anyone though.

Personally, I chose this method when I was a rifleman and had to climb into the turret to be a gunner. I could slip out of the chest rig to have a slick IOTV which gave me a lot more work space in the turret. Yes, this meant that my med kit was not attached to my person, but I always kept an Isreali bandage and tourniquet in my pockets. Besides, If I were hit, I would be sure to try and climb DOWN the turret to where my med kit and safety is rather than UP and OUT of the turret. :)

Reason two is that when I became a M240 Gunner, I wore a modded version of the blackhawk flotation gunners rig (IIRC). This rig gets VERY heavy when loaded with 7.62 linked ammo so donning heavy body armor with ammo attached to it would be a hassle and very bulky. It was simply easier to just don one after the other. The second pay off for this is when we had extended missions (ie:1-2weeks) in the middle of nowhere, I could drop the rig next to the 240, and be able to still have my armor on to "take a break" without giving up protection....Thats if I didn't remove my armor too though. ;)

And reason three is that in case of an emergency, (ie: being on the run/chased down) I would be able to drop my armor using the release cord yet keep my ammo and med kit with me. Now, I know this might seem to be irrational thinking, but it became a close reality during the elections.

This is just how I ran things and there were others who did the same, but most guys just had all their gear mounted directly to their armor. Hope this helps
 

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Interesting replies all around. But much seems to stem from what they personally used, not what was issued as standard, correct? Now I understand customizing is very common, but there's a world of difference between customizing one's outfit and just throwing some sht together - the US has one of the world's largest supply organizations (not that it help apparently) so it must be possible to see how a 'starter kit' for any grunt would look like.

US Army Infantry soldier 2012
Boots:
Uniform (pattern and type):
Gloves:
Vest:
Helmet:
Helmet attachments:
Pouches:
Grenades:
Other equipment:
Weapon(s): M240 MG,
Weapon attachment:
Holster:

US Marine Corps Marine 2012
Boots:
Uniform (pattern and type):
Gloves:
Vest:
Helmet:
Helmet attachments:
Pouches:
Grenades:
Other equipment:
Weapon(s): M240 MG,
Weapon attachment:
Holster:

Regarding this, I forgot the weapon attachments and added them. Also added the M240 for both army and USMC as a 'place-holder'.

I sincerely doubt anyone brings their privately owned M240 to Afghanistan...
 

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A Stickler for Accuracy
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Having been out of the loop for quite a while now, I don't have any current input :-(. I am, however glad to see a thread that seeks to educate and increase the accuracy of the figures bashed by our members. My Son is due home in Aug for block leave before a Fall deployment to this theater (yes, I'm "over here", but I have little to no contact with USMIL), so I hope to pick his brain when we get together.

Evan, I'm glad to hear about the Crye and the Opscores.

Are you carrying this IFAK by any chance, and if so, what do you think? I really like the low profile, ambidextrous design, but I would like some user feedback before I drop $80.00(+).


 

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Steve, that LoPro IFAK looks perfect for a blast belt, doesn't stick out, only drawback is the wider space taken up. I'd like to see it in person though first. My IFAK has a pull handle that makes it fall to my feet once the "rip chord" is pulled so that I can still access it even when it's molle'd to my back panel. It was a gift from a buddy across the fence so I'm not sure if it has a manufacturer etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Warge - Started looking at your idea. It's good but hard to be thorough and not get complicated. A soldier's load out besides being personal preference is also impacted by weapon, position and unit. E.G. prior to the soon to be deployed NETT Warrior leaders down to the squad leader level are issued radios. A rifleman's pouches are different than a SAW gunner.

Here's my straw man input to move the effort forward...


US Army Infantry soldier 2012

Boots: Varies. Right now (among many things) the regulation says the boot has to be over 8” tall and a non shine type material in the suede tan family (must be lighter than Marine issue boots). How they enforce this is beyond me I’m sure it causes confusion in the ranks. (Active duty guys chime in) An exception is the the Danner mountain boot in a dark brown leather. Authorized manufacturers for boots in use include Altama, Bates, Belleville, Rocky and Wellco.

Uniform (pattern and type): ACUs inOCP pattern (Multicam)

Gloves: OMG! The reg says they have to be a color that complements the uniform. Again, how this is enforced is beyond me. (Active duty guys chime in and give more details on the reg though we know enforcement is chain of command dependent). Manufacturers of gloves include hatch, mechanics, Oakley, wiley x but there’s easily a dozen I’m missing and most of these companies like the boots have multiple styles.

Vest: IOTV and at last count four different plate carriers (eagle makes one but I don’t know the specific model). Issue items are in OCP

Helmet: ACH w/helmet cover

Helmet attachments: Besides the basic NVG mount (convention rectangular plate and hinge the troops refer to as a “Rhino” mount) very few are “issued” (I haven’t heard of any which doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened). Depends mostly on the individual. Bottom line is attachments are relatively rare. Never seen a norotos mount or rails though it’s not beyond reality that ONE grunt of a 100 might buy or scrounge them. Surefire lights are probably one or two per squad and more likely the higher the rank of the Soldier.
Pouches: This is a book. I’ll try and get back to it later. You can pick up a catalog though from one of the better military suppliers and see what’s available. Most commonly issued are double mag pouches with a flap cover, three mag shingles, the IFAK. Soldiers augment as needed/desired. I believe one OCP rack has been issued but I have to confirm (guys do buy their own).

Grenades: Definitely… :applause

Other equipment: Another catalog… :bag

Weapon(s): M3, M4, M9, M203, M240, M249, M320, AT4, Javelin, assorted knives (rarely issued outside the bayonet and even that is out of favor), tomahawk (personal purchase) and maybe a personally purchased club (I like the ASP… )

Weapon attachment: depends on the weapon. M68s (Gen I & II), PEQ15s are always issued and most common on the M4. ACOGs and Eotecs I’ve discussed earlier. (Venivicivici can help with the M240 for sure). Never seen/heard a spectre issued but it may be and some guys actually buy their own $1000+ sights.

Holster: Serpas are issued, (there may be other soft holsters issued but I don’t KNOW). Guys definitely supplement with purchase.

Obviously a lot of holes but it’s a start…
 

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Proudly Banned by OSS
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I want to add - I've heard that vest-mounted SERPA's are usually the preferential choice. Thigh-mounted rig tend to get discarded quickly. Speaking with VVV, he could recall only one fellow infantryman who ran with a rig that had two thigh-mounted pouches/holsters.
VVV writes: "My other 240 team ran an elcan on theirs and we had PAS13 with us but rarely ever mounted those. We normally just used the PAS 13 as a spotting scope."
 

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retired firefighter
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comming from an old 0300 USMC, 2 ammo pouches, 2 canteens, and a first aid pouch, all this new stuff that troops are using, WOW!, I was using the ole John WAYNE helmet. Call me ole fasion but im a early 80s guy, site allignment, site picture didnt need no scope.
 

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A Stickler for Accuracy
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Steve, that LoPro IFAK looks perfect for a blast belt, doesn't stick out, only drawback is the wider space taken up. I'd like to see it in person though first. My IFAK has a pull handle that makes it fall to my feet once the "rip chord" is pulled so that I can still access it even when it's molle'd to my back panel. It was a gift from a buddy across the fence so I'm not sure if it has a manufacturer etc.
Yeah Evan, I would mount it in the center of my belt. It's 9" wide, which is a bunch of space, but I already run a med pouch on the right rear of my belt (that I would be replacing with the new one) that butts right up to my holster, with the center of my back clear, so I have space... I agree though, I want to get my hands on one and play with it.
 

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Warge - Started looking at your idea. It's good but hard to be thorough and not get complicated. A soldier's load out besides being personal preference is also impacted by weapon, position and unit. E.G. prior to the soon to be deployed NETT Warrior leaders down to the squad leader level are issued radios. A rifleman's pouches are different than a SAW gunner.

Here's my straw man input to move the effort forward...

US Army Infantry soldier 2012

Boots: Varies. Right now (among many things) the regulation says the boot has to be over 8" tall and a non shine type material in the suede tan family (must be lighter than Marine issue boots). How they enforce this is beyond me I'm sure it causes confusion in the ranks. (Active duty guys chime in) An exception is the the Danner mountain boot in a dark brown leather. Authorized manufacturers for boots in use include Altama, Bates, Belleville, Rocky and Wellco.

Uniform (pattern and type): ACUs inOCP pattern (Multicam)

Gloves: OMG! The reg says they have to be a color that complements the uniform. Again, how this is enforced is beyond me. (Active duty guys chime in and give more details on the reg though we know enforcement is chain of command dependent). Manufacturers of gloves include hatch, mechanics, Oakley, wiley x but there's easily a dozen I'm missing and most of these companies like the boots have multiple styles.

Vest: IOTV and at last count four different plate carriers (eagle makes one but I don't know the specific model). Issue items are in OCP

Helmet: ACH w/helmet cover

Helmet attachments: Besides the basic NVG mount (convention rectangular plate and hinge the troops refer to as a "Rhino" mount) very few are "issued" (I haven't heard of any which doesn't mean it hasn't happened). Depends mostly on the individual. Bottom line is attachments are relatively rare. Never seen a norotos mount or rails though it's not beyond reality that ONE grunt of a 100 might buy or scrounge them. Surefire lights are probably one or two per squad and more likely the higher the rank of the Soldier.
Pouches: This is a book. I'll try and get back to it later. You can pick up a catalog though from one of the better military suppliers and see what's available. Most commonly issued are double mag pouches with a flap cover, three mag shingles, the IFAK. Soldiers augment as needed/desired. I believe one OCP rack has been issued but I have to confirm (guys do buy their own).

Grenades: Definitely… :applause

Other equipment: Another catalog… :bag

Weapon(s): M3, M4, M9, M203, M240, M249, M320, AT4, Javelin, assorted knives (rarely issued outside the bayonet and even that is out of favor), tomahawk (personal purchase) and maybe a personally purchased club (I like the ASP… )

Weapon attachment: depends on the weapon. M68s (Gen I & II), PEQ15s are always issued and most common on the M4. ACOGs and Eotecs I've discussed earlier. (Venivicivici can help with the M240 for sure). Never seen/heard a spectre issued but it may be and some guys actually buy their own $1000+ sights.

Holster: Serpas are issued, (there may be other soft holsters issued but I don't KNOW). Guys definitely supplement with purchase.

Obviously a lot of holes but it's a start…
Thank you sir! Someone with a lot of experience in the field I see which is appreciated.

What surprises me is that there is so much room for customization of one's equipment - almost seems like the only things used as issued would be the helmet and the weapon. For a collctor with little knowledge this is a godsend - very little can be done wrong. :D
 

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@Punisher. Thanks! Good listings there.

I pulled a quick one and went to my favourite dealer monkey depot and whipped up a list of stuff that seems to be fairly correct (it probably isnt) for a army rifleman:

Canteen: Playhouse Camelback ACU Pattern
Hands: Soldier Story Mechanix Impact Pro Weapon Gripping Our Price:
Pouch: Crazy Dummy Dump Coyote
Pouch: Playhouse MLCS General Purpose - Coyote
Pouch: Soldier Story 3 Cell M4 Magazine - Tan
Pouch: Soldier Story Frag Grenade Coyote MOLLE (x2)
Vest: Soldier Story Eagle CIRAS Maritime - Tan
Helmet: BBi MICH 3 Color Desert Cover
Boots: Soldier Story US Modern Brown (Socket Type)
Uniform: Toys City Crye Combat AOR1 Camo
Ammo: Playhouse M4 30 Round Magazine (x6)
Grenade: Playhouse Baseball Frag (x2)
Knife: Dragon US KBAR Brown Sheath
Rifle: Toys City M4A1 Carbine
Sight: Soldier Story EO Tech Tan

How about it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 · (Edited)
Warge - CCs right. The conventional guys don't have the leeway the spec ops guys do when it comes to vests. Private purchase is frowned upon (and EXPENSIVE!). Soldier's chain of command are responsible if a soldier is wounded/killed while wearing an unauthorized vest.

Army started transitioning to the IOTV late in '07. IOTV in UCP/OCP are really the only realistic options for a grunt for the last four years. Plate carrier for the last 2-3 years IF you can find one. The 1:6 industry has been slow to pick up on it but that's for another thread/section.

I'm going to "try" and suggest some EXISTING 1:6 solutions (I'm leary of opening the thread to a crapstorm). Let's not get into a discussion of who makes the best whatever, pretty please? That would be a great 1:6 discussion forum topic and you'll get tons of "help". Personally, I've found hqpham and Casual Collector as very helpful in IDing 1:6 solutions to me.

IOTV - HT, VHT, Wild Work (UCP), (SS did one. Avoid it PM me for reasons) VHT does an OCP IOTV

Plate carrier w/molle & cummberbund - Rare! WW (UCP), VHT(OCP)

There's some mixing and matching of colors but not that much and coyote isn't the dominant color of Army equipment though the types of pouches you selected are a practical solution. You forgot an IFAK. The most common is the size of a 100rnd saw pouch. Some have special markings like a red strap, cross or buckle. Some have nothing and others have the redcross done with a sharpie. A canteen pouch is a possible substitue. Troops use them all the time for misc stuff, nvg pouch or a replacement med kit pouch if the original was lost/unserviceable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
High praise hobbit. Thank you for taking the time to post. It's good to know there is genuine interest in the thread because visits can be a misleading statistic.

What kind of pictures you looking for? There's TONS of stuff out there.
 

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@casual, major.rod: Thanks for your input. You know, that is the kind of response I love.

The list wasn't really made with a purchase right now in mind, but more of a trial of how much actually is available at the click of a mouse button - even if the list is ok, I might pick up on it later.

Regarding the vest: I suspected the CIRAS to be some kind of SF item and I picked it more because it looked good. Yeah, shows how much I know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Glad I could help.

There's very little available at the click of a mouse. I had to edit this post heavily because I started to get into 1:6 stuff.

Good luck though and it seems like things are changingLet it suffice to say it isn't out there. Try finding a MICH with a multicam helmet cover. :fit

Good luck though it looks like there's good things on the horizon. :clap
 
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