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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Building ideas for a long term project involving some SEALs. I've been bouncing around an idea for a set piece that's never been attempted but I'm having trouble deciding how to make it.
Subject will have a gunshot wound to the head, entrance wound on the right forehead. This caused the collapse of the right side of his face due to damage to the skull and brain matter leaking out.
I'm not sure how I'm going to simulate this, but here's the ideas I had:
- Start by drilling the entry wound with a small bit hobby drill. Collapse the skull with careful use of a heat gun on the right upper side of the forehead to create a slight sunken look.
-Close the eyes with sculpy.
-Open the mouth by gently separating the lips with a razor.
-Commission repaint, then use clear red to simulate blood on the head and carpet.
-Brain matter from green stuff/sculpy. Study spatter patterns.

Not really sure how well this would work, so outside input desired. Completion of total project should be next year due to job considerations.
 

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Re: Simulating Gunshot Wounds/Massive Head Trauma?

OBL???? Sounds awesome. I know there are a lot of talented folks here on the forum, but based on 8Bits amazing work on his undead sculpts... I think he could really bring this to life if you commissioned him for the paint job.
 

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Re: Simulating Gunshot Wounds/Massive Head Trauma?

That could work. Things to take into consideration are among others, caliber of the gun that hit, type of ammo and of course, how old the corpse is.

I agree with voodoo reagarding painting - commission 8-bit commando for a repaint of the sculpt.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Re: Simulating Gunshot Wounds/Massive Head Trauma?

8-bit sounds like a good idea.
I unfortunately don't have any info beyond vague descriptions from the SEALs involved of what the corpse looked like. He got hit by 5.56 rifle rounds, so they did damage. However, the left side of the head and the nose were apparently intact enough to be recognizable. That's leading me to design this as having that single major GSW. I could add a second GSW to the right side of his head by "cutting away" some of the head, with the gray matter leaking out. This is just going to be a complicated project if I go through with it.
 

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Re: Simulating Gunshot Wounds/Massive Head Trauma?

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that gore in "real life" depictions is best used sparingly. While zombie stuff gets a pass much of the time, there's an issue with the line between "realism" and "war porn", in historical subjects.
 

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Re: Simulating Gunshot Wounds/Massive Head Trauma?

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that gore in "real life" depictions is best used sparingly. While zombie stuff gets a pass much of the time, there's an issue with the line between "realism" and "war porn", in historical subjects.
That sounds like a different discussion topic. Since we all know what the OP wants to do and I doubt he is the only one, the topic might be best discussed separately what is what.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: Simulating Gunshot Wounds/Massive Head Trauma?

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that gore in "real life" depictions is best used sparingly. While zombie stuff gets a pass much of the time, there's an issue with the line between "realism" and "war porn", in historical subjects.
I completely understand your concern. My only intent here is to be accurate to the injuries as described. I don't intend to go over the top with this. The head trauma described in No Easy Day (with the possible addition of a second shot to the head per the point man's account) combined with some chest wounds done similarly to the one in zebraten's "The only good terrorist..." If you've got any questions/comments, please feel free to contact me by PM or email, I'm happy to hash something out.
 

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Re: Simulating Gunshot Wounds/Massive Head Trauma?

I completely understand your concern. My only intent here is to be accurate to the injuries as described. I don't intend to go over the top with this. The head trauma described in No Easy Day (with the possible addition of a second shot to the head per the point man's account) combined with some chest wounds done similarly to the one in zebraten's "The only good terrorist..." If you've got any questions/comments, please feel free to contact me by PM or email, I'm happy to hash something out.
There are 4 levels of concern depicting the drastic injury of an actual person. Level 1 is purely what level of gore detail the hobbyist is personally comfortable with. Level 2 is showing adequate respect to the victim, and frankly that seems less of a concern here than if you were depicting for example JFK. Level 3 is what's appropriate if you are showing the bash somewhere in public, and then that depends on the context, eg will kids see it, etc.

Level 4 that Pukingdog was probably thinking of is what's appropriate when you eventually post the pics on OSW. If you've made an accurately gory depiction there are still things you can do to "dial it down" when you post pictures - like no close-ups of the injury, maybe taking some of the pictures in black and white, etc.
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Discussion Starter #9
Re: Simulating Gunshot Wounds/Massive Head Trauma?

There are 4 levels of concern depicting the drastic injury of an actual person. Level 1 is purely what level of gore detail the hobbyist is personally comfortable with. Level 2 is showing adequate respect to the victim, and frankly that seems less of a concern here than if you were depicting for example JFK. Level 3 is what's appropriate if you are showing the bash somewhere in public, and then that depends on the context, eg will kids see it, etc.

Level 4 that Pukingdog was probably thinking of is what's appropriate when you eventually post the pics on OSW. If you've made an accurately gory depiction there are still things you can do to "dial it down" when you post pictures - like no close-ups of the injury, maybe taking some of the pictures in black and white, etc.
Posing to de-emphasize the injury would probably be the approach I'd take. I liked the approach Zero Dark Thirty took with regards to the body. Given that there are already some concerns, I might take a similar approach here and de-emphasize parts of the dio.
Also, I gotta remind everyone this is a long ways off and mostly speculative right now. I'm currently doing some SEALs. If I can get a good SSE kit made up for them to sulate the ID process (including latex glovehands), then I'll start seriously building this.
 

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Re: Simulating Gunshot Wounds/Massive Head Trauma?

There are 4 levels of concern depicting the drastic injury of an actual person. Level 1 is purely what level of gore detail the hobbyist is personally comfortable with. Level 2 is showing adequate respect to the victim, and frankly that seems less of a concern here than if you were depicting for example JFK. Level 3 is what's appropriate if you are showing the bash somewhere in public, and then that depends on the context, eg will kids see it, etc.

Level 4 that Pukingdog was probably thinking of is what's appropriate when you eventually post the pics on OSW. If you've made an accurately gory depiction there are still things you can do to "dial it down" when you post pictures - like no close-ups of the injury, maybe taking some of the pictures in black and white, etc.
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Bring those thoughts to a separate discussion; PD and my last reply to him was just about that.

Oh hell, I guess I can start it too...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: Simulating Gunshot Wounds/Massive Head Trauma?

Well, my wife is gleefully supporting this project and has offered to help with simulating the damage. This project has been effectively reactivated (thanks, Dear!).

Also, for added kicks: Description of the body by Mark Owen:

We saw the man lying on the floor at the foot of his bed. He was wearing a white sleeveless T-shirt, loose tan pants, and a tan tunic. The point man's shots had entered the right side of his head. Blood and brains spilled out of the side of his skull. In his death throes, he was still twitching and convulsing. Another assaulter and I trained our lasers on his chest and fired several rounds.
The bullets tore into him, slamming his body into the floor until he was motionless.
********
The man's face was mangled from at least one bullet wound and covered in blood. A hole in his forehead collapsed the right side of his skull. His chest was torn up from where the bullets had entered his body. He was lying in an ever-growing pool of blood. As I crouched down to take a closer look, Tom joined me.
"I think this is our boy," Tom said.
********
The more I looked at his mangled face, my eye seemed to go back to his nose. It wasn't damaged and seemed familiar. Pulling my booklet out of my kit, I studied the composite photos. The long and slender nose fit. His beard was dark black and there was no trace of the gray that I expected to see.
********
Walt pulled his CamelBak hose from his kit and squirted water on the man's face.
I started to wipe the blood away from his face using a blanket from the bed. With each swipe, the face became more familiar. He looked younger than I expected. His beard was dark, like it had been dyed. I just kept thinking about how he didn't look anything like I'd expected him to look.

This is pretty much what I'm going by for making this guy.
 

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FWIW, I saw some of this in Iraq. There are three things I vividly remember:

1) On seeing a bad guy that took a 5.56 to the head, I recall thinking that it looked like a smashed pumpkin or a deflated basketball. You could see that the bone underlying the skull itself was shattered such that the cranium (and by extension, the face) had lost its shape. Hollywood tends to give us "pretty little headshots" where you see a little red hole between the eyes and that's it... Obviously, this is at your discretion, but I would not be surprised to see serious deformity in the shape of the skull.

2) One thing people tend to overlook is how dirty corpses get. When I paint zombies I tend to think about what side of the body was facing down and try to paint it appropriately. If there is dust or mud or anything on the floor, it will be transferred to the corpse's face. On the other hand, I've also seen corpses left over from an airstrike. In their case, the exposed side was dirtier because of all the particulate dust thrown into the air.

3) Why eyes closed? The eyes do an excellent job of demonstrating neurological damage. You could take the opportunity to show mismatched pupils or a subconjunctival hemorrhage, or maybe have one eye open and the other closed to depict asymmetrical paralysis. As Moonbase Alpha Male points out, it depends on what level of trauma you are trying to inflict on your audience.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
3) Why eyes closed? The eyes do an excellent job of demonstrating neurological damage. You could take the opportunity to show mismatched pupils or a subconjunctival hemorrhage, or maybe have one eye open and the other closed to depict asymmetrical paralysis. As Moonbase Alpha Male points out, it depends on what level of trauma you are trying to inflict on your audience.
Mark Owen specificially noted asking his teammate Walt to hold the remaining eyelid open while documenting the body. That implies that it was closed during the initial photographing of the corpse.
 

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FWIW, I saw some of this in Iraq. There are three things I vividly remember:

1) On seeing a bad guy that took a 5.56 to the head, I recall thinking that it looked like a smashed pumpkin or a deflated basketball. You could see that the bone underlying the skull itself was shattered such that the cranium (and by extension, the face) had lost its shape. Hollywood tends to give us "pretty little headshots" where you see a little red hole between the eyes and that's it... Obviously, this is at your discretion, but I would not be surprised to see serious deformity in the shape of the skull.

2) One thing people tend to overlook is how dirty corpses get. When I paint zombies I tend to think about what side of the body was facing down and try to paint it appropriately. If there is dust or mud or anything on the floor, it will be transferred to the corpse's face. On the other hand, I've also seen corpses left over from an airstrike. In their case, the exposed side was dirtier because of all the particulate dust thrown into the air.

3) Why eyes closed? The eyes do an excellent job of demonstrating neurological damage. You could take the opportunity to show mismatched pupils or a subconjunctival hemorrhage, or maybe have one eye open and the other closed to depict asymmetrical paralysis. As Moonbase Alpha Male points out, it depends on what level of trauma you are trying to inflict on your audience.
Excellent advice here.

There IS a sculpt of bin Laden around (I don't remember who made it though) but I doubt it would work as-is consicering that one is 'alive' and CC tries to make a corpse with a gunshot wound to the face. This might be another case where it might be worth making a backup copy of the sculpt and work from that in case something goes horribly wrong.
 

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This might be another case where it might be worth making a backup copy of the sculpt and work from that in case something goes horribly wrong.
More horribly wrong that getting half your head blown off laying in a puddle of your own grey matter?

:lol

Seriously, though, that's sound advise. Follow it.
 

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I think for the head wound itself your best bet may be to remove a section of the HS where you want to place the wound and then build up the wound with Sculpey or your material of choice. I think the difficult part would be with getting the angle of the entry wound just right and making sure the skull/bone and tissue trauma corresponds with the entry wound. I doubt many people are going to have the clearance necessary or loose lips to argue accuracy no matter how it turns out haha. Good luck CC, sounds like a very interesting piece.
 

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Is the sculpt hollow or solid?
 

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I'd suggest putting pieces of pingpong balls inside a hollow head to act as broken skull and then using a heat gun to slowly cause the head to deflate/droop in and hang on the "bone" inside.

Not seen any head wounds caused by rifles personally, just two cause by pistols and one from a shotgun while working as an EMT-B. SoloSam put it best as they are definitely not the Hollywood "pretty little headshots".
 

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Looks good so far, I tend to find that the real magic happens when you start painting. With this kind of thing you sometimes have to pull back on what you show. I remember working on a really graphic werewolf victim once and initially it just looked too real and too graphic. Sometimes a little more blood can be the answer. When I added a bit more to what I was doing, oddly, it looked less instead of more graphic.

CHEERS!
 
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