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wave man TDY staff
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Nothing's been reported to staff, there seems to be some discussion of the issue, along with various allegations. It seems there are 429 pages of thread on the matter, on SSF. No need to revisit it here, nor any slap-fighting among members. If anyone has pertinent information, actual proof, then provide it to staff.
 

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Company seems shady. That's about it. Company started out saying they were going to be the best thing since sliced bread. Offering sets that seem to good to be true. They show pictures of a stainless steel skeleton they say will be used as their base internal body. The skeleton is a manufacturing marvel. Offers Lennon as a preorder due to ship months down the road. A lot of people know this is BS but many put an order in with PayPal. Without them saying so it's more or less a go fund me type of thing. Of course the promised shipping date has come and gone. They are still saying it will ship in October I think it is. Many people don't even think they started production yet. Many of the pictures shown are digital renders. The whole thing stinks to me.
 

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With all due respect, I think that's just a terrible and wrongly-based decision. By the time there's hard proof (if that's the situation) there will be nothing more to talk about here anyway.

Up to and before that point is precisely where the information sharing matters -- including the concerns of people who may have put down pre-order money and want to know what everyone else is thinking. Or even new people who may still be putting down pre-order money tomorrow or in the future because the potentially useful information and discussion were suppressed and they didn't see anything on OSW about it.

Suppressing the whole subject or disallowing people's concerns would just be a huge help to any scammer, again if hypothetically that's what could be happening. By all means OSW should reel any member (including me) if the discussion steps out of line or the tone goes bad. But nixing the whole subject ab initio is just in my respectful view outright irresponsible.

Also BTW "there's 429 pages about it on SSF so we don't need to talk about it here" is also in my respectful view a bad precedent. What are we now, second class citizens to SSF? If they're covering a subject we don't want it here? I look to OSW specifically because OSW tends to get a smarter, more cautious and much more concise and focused discussion that SSF usually has.
 

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1:6 Acquisitionist
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My perspective on it is as follows.

I've seen much discourse about M8's John Lennon across a variety of online discussion groups including one I'm an admin in.

When the troubles started, there was much heated discussions, etc. among members resulting in hard feelings between those who defended/supported M8, those who were skeptical, and those who wanted a refund and went through the process along with what was apparent fallout between M8 and PayPal due to circumstances.

Surprisingly, OSW for the most part managed to avoid the heated discussions compared to other groups; however, due to the eagerness of one member who had to post three (3) thread about the subject . . . look at where we are now.

I don't want to see members here get into the same heated arguments engaged elsewhere given the circumstances and that is what I believe the staff is did by putting the kibosh on the discussion(s) from the thread(s).

It's not about suppressing, etc. It's about we don't need the BULL$%^& spilling over in the OSW about a $%^& company like M8 and their dubious/questionable actions thus far.

If any of us want to discuss it, then we can do so elsewhere. Let's avoid it within the OSW. There are other more relevant topics to discuss and argue about here asides from M8's John Lennon figure.

We're not second class to SSF. Far from it. The OSW does its own thing like every other forum, but I personally feel we usually avoid much of the BULL$%^& drama and pettiness compared to some other 1:6 discussion groups online and in social media given our particular/specific niche and mindset . . . more or less.
 

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. A lot of people know this is BS but many put an order in with PayPal. Without them saying so it's more or less a go fund me type of thing. Of course the promised shipping date has come and gone. They are still saying it will ship in October I think it is. Many people don't even think they started production yet. Many of the pictures shown are digital renders. The whole thing stinks to me.
If they have a paypal account still they can consider themselves extremely fortunate. If you can't deliver in 30 days, you don't take payment. Amateur hour.
 

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If they have a paypal account still they can consider themselves extremely fortunate. If you can't deliver in 30 days, you don't take payment. Amateur hour.
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Is the bottom line that if anyone paid a deposit or paid in full and they for whatever reasons still "believed" and have "faith" and didn't file a claim within PayPal's six month timeframe, then are they SOL due to their own unenlightened and misguided choice?
 

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If they have a paypal account still they can consider themselves extremely fortunate. If you can't deliver in 30 days, you don't take payment. Amateur hour.
Buyers have to open a Paypal dispute in a specified time. And lots of people paid by other means including credit cards, and they have different time periods which they may miss. That's why awareness matters. With removal of the threads there's a much increased risk some people will miss dispute deadlines because they see no discussion on OSW and they don't read SSF. That's going to be on us. The truth that "we don't need the BULL$%^ spilling over in the OSW" will be our answer when they ask "Why didn't someone warn me of the risk." Said my piece, gonna shut up now.
 

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Buyers have to open a Paypal dispute in a specified time. And lots of people paid by other means including credit cards, and they have different time periods which they may miss. That's why awareness matters. With removal of the threads there's a much increased risk some people will miss dispute deadlines because they see no discussion on OSW and they don't read SSF. That's going to be on us. The truth that "we don't need the BULL$%^ spilling over in the OSW" will be our answer when they ask "Why didn't someone warn me of the risk." Said my piece, gonna shut up now.
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I comprehend and respect your point.

From my perspective, the entire M8 debacle is a cluster<CENSORED> of epic proportions. While I do believe there is some sense of responsibility in enlightening and informing possibly unsuspecting collectors of a very likely debacle . . . but the whole situation devolved to the point where no one wants to touch so to speak right, wrong, and indifferent.

What we're discussing is way more calm and civil compared to elsewhere and I posted my fair share of pointed criticisms about M8.

I guess in one way this very discussion thread will serve as a caution for those inclined to view it.

In the same token, caveat emptor applies to all within the 1:6 hobby.
 

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I comprehend and respect your point.

From my perspective, the entire M8 debacle is a cluster<CENSORED> of epic proportions. While I do believe there is some sense of responsibility in enlightening and informing possibly unsuspecting collectors of a very likely debacle . . . but the whole situation devolved to the point where no one wants to touch so to speak right, wrong, and indifferent.

What we're discussing is way more calm and civil compared to elsewhere and I posted my fair share of pointed criticisms about M8.

I guess in one way this very discussion thread will serve as a caution for those inclined to view it.

In the same token, caveat emptor applies to all within the 1:6 hobby.
Totally respect and agree with your sentiments. I've nothing to add on the main point.
 

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Buyers have to open a Paypal dispute in a specified time. And lots of people paid by other means including credit cards, and they have different time periods which they may miss. That's why awareness matters. With removal of the threads there's a much increased risk some people will miss dispute deadlines because they see no discussion on OSW and they don't read SSF. That's going to be on us. The truth that "we don't need the BULL$%^ spilling over in the OSW" will be our answer when they ask "Why didn't someone warn me of the risk." Said my piece, gonna shut up now.
180 days is the paypal standard time to open a dispute, but if the purchase was funded by an amount other than a paypal balance, then a person may consult their institution or card provider to see what their eligibility window is. I always recommend people to fund a paypal purchase with something other than a balance in paypal for that reason. With products in this industry that can take 6 months, to a year, and in some cases beyond a year, to see the light of day, there is a real awareness issue that can take place. However I can see the admins perhaps not wanting any promotion of the product as there are always going to be some who take a punt no matter how negative publicity something gets.
 

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Is the bottom line that if anyone paid a deposit or paid in full and they for whatever reasons still "believed" and have "faith" and didn't file a claim within PayPal's six month timeframe, then are they SOL due to their own unenlightened and misguided choice?
Per my previous post it depends on what the source of funds was at the time of purchase. With funds held in paypal you are locked in to them being your sole source of a remedy. If you however paid by bank transfer or credit card via paypal then the windows are different and one should talk to the appropriate party. All that being said, paypal tracks chargeback rates, and in cases where there is a clear pattern of behavior from the account holder and sufficient complaints they will cover customers beyond their own deadlines. The worst thing a buyer can do is give up and feel sorry for themselves. The best thing a buyer can do is get on the phone, get a hold of the departments that deal with these issues and initiate dialog. The agreements between say a visa or mastercard and paypal are VERY different than the agreements between paypal and yourself.
 

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wave man TDY staff
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
OSW has had experience with cons originating from SSF before, and the best approach is to report them to staff, and perhaps post a brief bit, IF such "projects" show up here. Then those can be dealt with, in a draconian fashion, rather than the lighter touch which seems to offend some here. There's a difference between informational posting, and over-dramatization with accompanying argument.
 
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