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UMMM UMMM B17C#
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PD's right.No special Forces or SEALS exist.
 

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Mandoll withdrawl
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If I recall, [been out of touch for ~5 months] some FR still exists, the 3rd and 4th, as MARSOC absorbed parts of 1st and 2nd FR.
Not sure what happened to Deep Recon, they might have been absorbed too?
Other than that, Battalion Recon Marines are still kicking, though they generally operate with and under their Battalion or Division commanders.
 

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A Stickler for Accuracy
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4,365 Posts
Wikipedia isn't really accepted by most academicians as a credible reference. So take anything that you read there and can't independently verify with a grain of salt.

Soldier of Fortune doesn't have the best track record on accuracy either. Who's going to do the FID and UW mission? MARSOC and SEALs? I really don't think so.
 

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wave man TDY staff
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41,776 Posts
Steve O. said:
Who's going to do the FID and UW mission? MARSOC and SEALs? I really don't think so.
A source I cannot identify has told me that Robert DeNiro will replace SF and FR. Of course this will mean we won't see many new movie roles for him....
 

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Registered
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this is what I know from the reading I've done. All Force Recon companies have been eliminated in favor of MARSOC. The only 2 Force Recon companies that still exist are 3rd and 4th Force Recon companies, but those are both reserve companies with the 4th Marine division. They still perform their recon/DA missions as always. From what i've read (this part may not be 100% accurate), most FR marines from deactivated companies merged over to MARSOC, others back to the Fleet, others to Recon Batt, others to the 2 remaining reserve companies

Marine Recon Battalions 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th are alive and kicking. They still exist.

The purpose of MARSOC is to integrate Marines into the SOCOM command. MARSOC's mission currently is FID. Now this FID is different from the Army's SF FID. MARSOC mainly does FID with military's that already exist. The purpose to help train Foregin existing 3rd world military's to help build their training. Example, a MARSOC detachment recently did a tour in Senegal to help train their army. Whereas the Green Berets' FID is to stand up a fighting force from nothing, example the northern alliance in Afghanistan. Since thats not the case every day, Army SF FID has been mainly with existing militaries.

So MARSOC in a sense is sharing the FID mission with Army SF. Yes MARSOC can do DA missions and recon, but thats not their primary mission, its FID.

Yes there was an article about 2-3 months ago stating that in a SOCOM presentation to commanding officers about the future of SOCOM, the Army's Green Berets were not mentioned. This led many to believe that Army Special Forces would be terminated. Again, thats the part that everyone was speculating about because how can you talk about SOCOM and not mention Army SF at all.

My guess, Army SF will continue to exist, it would be stupid to eliminate them all together.
 

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sits in a loose parts box
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And Chuck Norris will do all the direct action infantry stuff.
 

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wave man TDY staff
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Palaboon said:
And Chuck Norris will do all the direct action infantry stuff.
Norris is stopped by the fact that he can't operate for prolonged periods without a Total Gym in close proximity. Efforts by DEPDEF to get a portable combat version into the field are hampered by copyright.
 

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A Stickler for Accuracy
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A source I cannot identify has told me that Robert DeNiro will replace SF and FR. Of course this will mean we won't see many new movie roles for him....
Well, OK, if Robert Deniro is the replacement, I don't see a problem. Obviously, this has been well thought out. As a matter of fact, I guess I'll head right down to the GB Club to get a stool and beat the rush of displaced team guys!;)
 

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A Stickler for Accuracy
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So MARSOC in a sense is sharing the FID mission with Army SF. Yes MARSOC can do DA missions and recon, but thats not their primary mission, its FID.
:grinroll:grinroll:grinroll Just a minute, let me catch my breath! OK, OK! No wait a minute! :grinroll:grinroll:grinroll

What I have been told by my friends who are still on ODAs and still in the field and have personal experience with MARSOC is that when the MARSOC unit(s) in OEF are given a "FID" mission, their SOP is to basically bring along their ANA counterparts, ignore them, move into an area, and pretty much "kill em all". That whole Hearts and Minds thing just seems to be too much of a bother. In their defense, I understand that they have a pretty solid FID doctrine, but they just choose to ignore it in order to do DA. I attended a briefing many years ago by a General Officer from SOCOM who described the USMC SOF capability as "a mile wide and an inch deep". Judging from first hand accounts from the field, they haven't grown much deeper.

Not to go off (or further off) on a tangent, but Marines kill people. Just like Rangers will give you an airfield in an unfriendly part of the world, Marines will give you a beachhead (but won't do it as well as the Rangers). Asking a Marine to do FID, real FID is asking him to go against all of the indoctrination that he has gone through since day one of Boot Camp. I'm not saying that they're not good at the whole killing thing, or that we don't need them, God knows we do! Just don't expect to have MARSOC do as good a job at a thinking man's mission as Special Forces. Who are just as adept at killing people, but have been selected for certain qualities that raise them above regular grunts and trained to be able use more advanced techniques to accomplish the mission.

I'm climbing down from my soapbox now.
 

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wave man TDY staff
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41,776 Posts
Steve O. said:
As a matter of fact, I guess I'll head right down to the GB Club to get a stool and beat the rush of displaced team guys!

I'm climbing down from my soapbox now.
See, that's A-DAPT-ABILITY!

And don't be modest, I'm guessing you'll rappel off the box.
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Yeah, I know I'm being a smartass, it's my natural reaction to bad ideas. Various people of position have been wanting to create a generic, one-stop shopping military for years. it hasn't happened yet, imo because it is a hi-suck concept. Our troops have shown an incredible flexibility in adapting to missions they weren't trained or conceived for. When the current situation changes, it's likely they may face a whole different mission. Some may be required to do what they were originally trained for, because bad guys don't come in just one flavor, and are typically uncooperative.

It's great that various services can contribute and cooperate to a common unit/mission, but not at the expense of eliminating forces that might not be used this year, but may be our best response down the line.
 
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