[155MM HOWITZER]

Hi folks,

What were the weapons used by Delta Force in the Battle of Mogadishu? I heard or read somewhere the weapons used were more varied than that portrayed in the movie BLACK HAWK DOWN. Also saw some pictures of Rangers in chocolate chip camou. Also seen 10th Mountain Division troopers in chocolate chip camou too in some magazines. I am more interested to know the variety of M4 carbines:angel carried by Delta Force. I am hoping to replace the weapon provided in my D Boy set from Toy Soldier. Thanks.

 

[dunk_guy01]

They were CAR-15s rather than M4s to be specific. In the book it was mentioned that one D-boy had a shotgun attachment on his. The movie was actually pretty accurate concerning the weapons.

I've seen the pictures of the Rangers from Mogadishu. Largely, they were 3-color desert BDUs with chocolate chip helmets but in some instances I did see chocolate chip BDUs. I also saw some Rangers wearing black body armor as it was mentioned in the book some CSAR Rangers did.

From the book and the movie all I could tell is that the D-Boys carried "CAR-15s" except for the snipers. One had an M14/M21 and the other had a CAR-15 with a scope and silencer.

If you notice in that picture, the CAR-15s have short barrels. The ones that come with the Toy Soldier figure have longer ones. That's just from the movie so I don't know which is more accurate...

http://www.follow-me-now.de/assets/images/Black_Hawk_Down-2.jpg

 

[justin_g]

As far as I can tell from researching ar-15 related websites - the Toy Soldier D-boy carbine(Colt 723) is completely accurate, as is the slightly different carbine that came with the DML Gary Gordon figure(Colt 727). The shorter barreled(11.5") Colt 733 "Commando" with a fixed carry handle would be accurate too(like the ones in that photo from the BHD movie).

 

[155MM HOWITZER]

Thanks pals for the information, it is definitely helpful. Cheers.

 

[Dirites]

m21, mp5a3 SD, car-15, mossberg 500 , m9, colt 45

 

[155MM HOWITZER]

Thanks pals. All the information is valuable.:chainsaw

 

[JTFazz]

For what its worth and to just to add more to the information, based on what I have read I am not entirely sure the 723 version A2 with the notched barrel, which is depicted in the Toy Soldier figure, is entirely accurate for 1993.

Only the later 723s had the A2 sights and notched barrel like the M4 (which was not first deployed until a year later). If the A2 version of the 723 was in Somalia, it was extremely rare. The earlier version of the 723 without the notched barrel could have been in Somalia, but its more likely that the carbines were XM177s, CAR15s and Colt Commando versions.

A user over at AR15.com's forum claimed to have been issued one of the later 723s, but later recanted and said it could have been an XM177E2 or E1 based on the upper receiver.

The safer accuracy choice is an XM177/CAR15. If the carbine has a notched barrel, windage sights, Picatinny-type rails or a removable carry handle, it is most likely not appropriate for 1993.

 

[155MM HOWITZER]

Very englightening indeed. Thanks.:knock

 

[justin_g]

(Cropped) photo of TFR Ranger in Somalia, 1993:

 

[155MM HOWITZER]

Is XM177 the short barrelled M16 used by special forces and Officers:banana in Vietnam War?

 

[justin_g]

That's the one!

XM177E1 - 10" barrel

XM177E2 - 11.5" barrel

90's models:

Colt M16A2 Carbine & Commando models

Interestingly, Bushmaster was awarded a contract to make some M4s in time for Desert Storm back in 1991 - there is a photo with one of General Schwarzkopfs bodyguards carrying one of them.

 

[155MM HOWITZER]

Thanks mate great pictures.

 

[Avtomat]

The widespread use of XM177E1 and E2 in both the first gulf war en operation restore hope in Somalia opened a whole new discussion of the effectiveness of the 5.56 mm round.

The real problem at the time was 1/12 twistrate of the 11.5" barrels and the relatively low muzzle velocity compared to the M16A2. With 55 grain M193 this would not have been a problem, but the USMC and army introduced the M855 62gr FMJ round at the time.

The 62 grain round is longer than the 55 gr and had stabilization problems out of the 1/12 barrels. This combined with lower velocities with the short barrels and heaver projectiles lead to this discussion, this was resolved with the introduction of the M4 and M4A1 which both had 1/7 twistrates on their 14.5 barrels both giving higher muzzle velocities and better stabilization on both 62 and 55 grain projectiles.

 

[JTF3]

heres a pic of a guy witn a m16 and remington 870

 

[Sgt.Schultz]

Here's an earlier thread with some more pics.

Here's a pic of former SFOD-D member Paul Howe in Somalia with his custom shotgun attachment.

As far as chocolate chip camo goes, I recently saw a photo taken after the Battle of Mogadishu showing 2 Somalis holding some burnt pieces of a Chocolate Chip uniform. One of the pieces is clearly from a pair of pants, as you can see the seam of the right side slash pocket, as well as a section of belt and belt loops. Due to the nature of the photo, I won't post it here and ask that nobody else do it either, there's no need. I just note it here because the mention of Chocolate chip uniforms was raised.