Controversial Figures

Well this issue popped up with each of those parade releases I think, and altough it's interesting to see how people's opinions differ on this issue there's never a decent outcome really.
I own several of the parade figs and have close family that died in the camps. I display a piece of granite that the surviving uncle of my father brought home from Flossenburg on the shelve with these figures because that's the best way to shed the right light on them, imo. But no doubt if any of the family elders were to see it I'd be cursed.
The thing is that it's easier for us as later generations to observe this part of history for what it is without gliding in extreme emotion, but we should be very cautious and respecting to those less lucky.

On a sidenote I had my reservations when Sideshow released General Custer but when I discussed it online I was flameraped by americans. It did however teach me a lot more about him and proved misconception is the biggest trap when learning of history.

So no I don't have a problem with so called controversial figures as long as they are not disrespectfull to either side or the figure itself. I can see how someone would add a Saddam to their collection but was rather repulsed by the hangman Saddam figure, regardless of wether he deserved his fate or not.

Properly presented (saracasm intended), I've seen just about any figure capable of causing a stir. The two main ingredients are (no saracasm intended) the poster's presentation and the mind of the viewer. We have a wide scope of membership here, and what may seem basically historical to one, may be outrageous to another. In many cases, that stems from personal knowledge or experience.

Obviously, there are figures that are going to cause controversy by their very nature. The various nazi party types mentioned are obvious examples, and some unconventional (aka "asymetrical") warfare subjects strike too close to home for others.
As with posted replies and comments, text and staging are best well-considered before submitting. If a work is posted with proper intention, it's equally important for those who view it to respond properly. That includes walking away, if the subject's too disturbing. Easy to say, but not so easy to do. There will no doubt always be some subjects that go beyond the pale.

Good post, Tim.

Btw a little something I found interesting about controversy in our hobby was this:

When the great Tiger Calico showed this marvellous dio, all were full of praise:



When the equally talented Vettius64 posted his "secret weapon of Sgt. Sanders" a lot of members were shocked:



I picked a rear view in order not to upset you but you get the point

Hmmmmm No matter how well done a figure may be or who may have created it, some bashes will always be offensive because of subject matter. Now the question to ask is what subject matter? That answer will vary depending upon who you ask, but certain subjects at least on this board will always cause controversy.

Calvins work was great as a Halloween bash, but taken out of context it suddenly becomes an issue for some members even though the original intent was never to shock or offend. ( Cool assed bash Cal )

For me it's the Nazis. I hate Nazis of any stripe and every time I see a figure of one I wonder if the creator knows that they lost the war, committed horrific acts and represented the very worst that humanity had to offer? I mean why would you want a figure of such true unadulterated evil in your house? Got me, but that's how it is with me and Nazis.

What I do not do, is go into every thread about Nazis figs and start a fire fight just to show you lads how manly I am.

There are subjects that will never fly on this board, but it's Staff who make that determination and if anyone has an issue with a particular post...tell staff, Don't start a flame war, because if you do, you then become part of the problem and Staff has enough to do without having to sort out that kind of silliness. ya know?

Any way that's about it from the chuckle club.

Have fun, enjoy the hobby and pass on by the posts that annoy you. Works for me.

Clay

Hardcase01 said:

Hmmmmm No matter how well done a figure may be or who may have created it, some bashes will always be offensive because of subject matter. Now the question to ask is what subject matter? That answer will vary depending upon who you ask, but certain subjects at least on this board will always cause controversy.

Calvins work was great as a Halloween bash, but taken out of context it suddenly becomes an issue for some members even though the original intent was never to shock or offend. ( Cool assed bash Cal )

For me it's the Nazis. I hate Nazis of any stripe and every time I see a figure of one I wonder if the creator knows that they lost the war, committed horrific acts and represented the very worst that humanity had to offer? I mean why would you want a figure of such true unadulterated evil in your house? Got me, but that's how it is with me and Nazis.

What I do not do, is go into every thread about Nazis figs and start a fire fight just to show you lads how manly I am.

There are subjects that will never fly on this board, but it's Staff who make that determination and if anyone has an issue with a particular post...tell staff, Don't start a flame war, because if you do, you then become part of the problem and Staff has enough to do without having to sort out that kind of silliness. ya know?

Any way that's about it from the chuckle club.

Have fun, enjoy the hobby and pass on by the posts that annoy you. Works for me.

Clay

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Clay, there is a lot of good stuff in there, that I feel it's worth quoting in whole.

From my perspective, I don't crtiticize historical stuff that may be offensive, because it's historical (well at least if accurately done). History is a messy science because it involves a messy humanity and that's the nature of the world we live in. But I also realize that that''s me and my perspective.

I see that in our day and times, people are too worried about offense. So what if something is offensive!!!! Grow a backbone!!! As Clay said - pass by it and let it go. I realize that I will most likely get a lot of grief for saying that, especially since historically that covers a lot of brutal crap, that offends even me. And I in no way mean to minimize the pain that many have suffered during such events. But taking offense over the actual historical action and real person(s) involved, I feel, is far different from taking offense from a representaion of that historical act/person. I think we end up weakening ourselves and our ability to avoid repeats of historical brutality if we can't face them and be honest about them. I also know that it is easy for me to say this, not having experienced any of it in my life time.

On the flip side, if you post something that gets booted, then show your spine and don't take it personally when it does. Since these boards are a community, if your bash/custom/dio causes a fellow memeber to hurt, then do them a favor by letting your post go. No need to take it personal or to try and defend yor intentions, just do your fellow hobbiest a favor and let it go. Maybe for another time, or you may have to save it for a select audience that you know will appreciate your workmanship on that particular subject.

The mods work hard using up much of their spare time that could be spent doing their own bashes and such to make this board (and the others) a place that offers the most opportunity to be informed about the hobby, enjoy the hobby, learn new skills/techniques/tools of the hobby, and as Clay's last line states help you to "have fun", which should be priority #1. And they try to create such an environment that offers these things to the maximum amount of collectors collectively. So compromise on all our parts is the name of the game. That's my $1.95 response.

I had Clay in mind among others, when mentioning the prospect of just walking away. Despite having ample reason to disparage the subject, he does a pretty good job of "walking on by". Much better than I have.
What constitutes historical and/or technical interest for someone can be painful for others who've been directly affected. It's toughest for them, despite the fact that we're talking about a piece of plastic. On some subjects, a buddy of mine says "it's not a big deal, but it is, know what I mean?" - and that's the line we all walk.
"Bad guys" of any stripe are controversial, but as conflicts involve at least two sides, defining the "bad guy" can range from simple and obvious, to complicated. Some companies have shown bad judgement in their choices of releases - at least that's my point of view. As with us, it's a matter of intent, I think. A contemporary "Mad Bomber" figure isn't funny, tho some might want it for the purpose of telling a story, or simply as a perp to be taken down by their LEOs. It's doubtful that Saddam or Bin Laden have been bought by anyone out of admiration, but some feel like they complete a period collection. onimk's Roy series used them both in a satirical fashion, and I know I even expressed some dislike once, which was a bit short-sighted on my part. On the other hand, putting out an "execution Saddam" is sleazy opportunism on the part of a commercial outfit.

Here onsite we have had dustups over crime scene dioramas for their bloody detail, any number of figures being used in a form they weren't released as, and the portrayal of wounded and dead. As the latter takes a figure closer to the harsh reality of things, there have been times when the work has been complimented, and times when it was just too close for some. A Hitler Youth figure might offend by it's seeming glorification, or at the basic level of portraying children participating in warfare. A bash of Jack the Ripper, well-made and presented with much atmosphere, garners praise. Unbridled gore for the purpose of shock, turns a talented basher into a virtual pariah. Politics? A surefire path to controversy, and yet, I recall a "protester" bash which was both universal and likeable.

Most show up here to enjoy themselves, see the work of others and show their own. Some of what we see may trouble us, most all will at least make us think. It's not always the most obvious consideration when we assemble, compose, photograph, and post something we take pride in. As in the art of discussion, it's a factor we all should add to our process.

As for consideration for admins, that isn't much of a factor (tho the comments are appreciated), as we have parameters to work with, are handsomely rewarded for our services, and are chosen for the twin characteristics of massive ego and soiopathic behavior....

I think this figure gotta b the most controversial...


And this is my most controversial bash to date... :chainsaw

http://www.onesixthwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45733

PSCMATT said:

I posted my SFOD in ACU with a Marine boonie and almost caused a riot lol.

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Haha... my inaccurate Russian bashes fueled a mini crusade in another forum too... verkill