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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi All,
This is my new 3D scan project in process.
Last summer I have finished similar experiment with Soviet Ssh-36:
http://www.onesixthwarriors.com/for...tom-soviet-ww2-ssh-36-helmet-halhingolka.html
This time I took as a basis rusty M17 helmet which was found somewhere in Kareliya's swamps. It was owned by unknown Finnish soldier:

Recently from the interest I decided to compare proportions of the real M16/M18 helmet and 1/6 models. I have only Did's M16 from here:
http://onlinedid.com/products/wwi/German/d11004/
I know Sideshow, BGT and Tony Barton also produced this 1/6 helmet.
I will appreciate if you post theirs dimentions here to.


1. Real М17 helmet

H=175mm
h1=29mm
h2=115mm
A=238mm
B=305mm

2. 1/6 M16 (DID)
H= 31mm
h1= 4.5mm
h2= 31mm
A= 43mm
B= 52mm

Proportions

1.Real М16
h1/H=0.1657
h2/H=0.657
H/A=0.735
H/B=0.574

2. M16 1/6 (Did)

h1/H=0.1452 difference -12%
h2/H=0.7258 difference +10,5%
H/A=0.7209 difference -2%
H/B=0.596 difference +3,8%





 

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Hallo!

I can fill in the numbers... but first...

The measurements vary by helemt shell size. They are normally, usually, generally found in Size 64, 66, and sometimes 68. There were supposed to be Size 60, Size 62, and Size 70 but I have never (use of universal so noted) yet seen a real one ior in photos/reference books with any in those three sizes.

Sizes 64 and 66 dominate the surviving artifact pool.

And the visor suspension lugs shape differs with the siz, being stepped down versions.

The Austrians mirrored the Germans, but only made Sizes 62 through 68, with 80% being the more comon Size 64 and Size 66 at 40% each.
 

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Got some additional infos for your project:
Austria M17 - Brendon's Helmets

Those "spines" that would hold the chinstraps you use with your model now are the German M16 design. Austro-Hungarian Forces used the German M16 right at the beginnning when they introduced steel helmets. As soon as they had the tools the austrians started their own line called the M17 which used the chinstrap design shown in the link. Later on this "suspension" was set higher into the helmet's dome, but the bolt never disappeared like on the German M18 helmet.

BTW - the DiD helmet is a M18 ;)

Will make some pics of my 1:1 German M16 and Austrian M17 soon and post 'em

PS: ever considered making a "Modell Berndorfer" helmet? This was the original Austro-Hungarian Helmet design that was produced in very limited numbers.
RUM - prilba M16 Berndorfer :: Other :: Dress & Mess, Uniforms & Accoutrements
 

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Brilliant work/research mate...
I haven't see any 1/6 German WWI helmets that looks the real deal.
Tony's came very close but to me the top is too flat.

Do you intend to produce this commercially?
I think a lot of people would be interested now that DiD is producing the Musik korps series...
I'd consider buying 6 and I know people who would be equally interested.

BTW, I am assuming you scanned your damaged helmet...
If this is correct, how did you manage scanning something so big?

>>>

PS...You did state "it is your new 3D scan project"...
What sort of scanner did you use?
 

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Hallo!

I have been out of town...

I hope to be back and get the Side Show, BGT, and TB measurements up tomorrow or Friday.

In the gray art, to my eye the M1916 chin strap lug seem/appears too high...and the visor stud too far to the rear.

The M1917 aka M1917/18 deleted the lugs and fixed the chinstrap to a "D" ring loop on the liner base.
 

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Hi All,

Our measurements for H1 and H2 scale down exactly 1/6th of those full scale measurements listed here by troitskaya28. Our H and B measurements are slightly larger which was done intentionally on our part to fit as many heads as possible.

Auggie
www.battlegeartoys.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Please don't ask me about technical details because I don't know it.

Sequence is so:
1. 3D scan of the real helmet.
2. Making new 3d model basing on the 3D scan with 100% equal external shape of hull.
Inside, the model is not like the real helmet(its more thick).
I can't punch-casting only resin casting in rubber molds.
3. 3d printing
4. Resin casting
About commercially side...I don't have my own manufacturer. So if somebody wish to take part in this project just PM me. Why not?
 

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Hallo!

Here goes....

Width A:

TB= 44.76
BGT= 44.98
SST= 34.43

Length B:

TB= 55.89
BGT= 52.20
SST= 51.29

Height H

TB= 30.17
BGT= 30.71
SST= 30.97

STud height H2:

TB= 20.29
BGT = 18.06
SST= 19.15

Visor H1:

TB= 2.75
BGT= 3.54
SST= 8.15

I have not figured out a good way to measure other than setting a ruler and questimating by eye.

Each of the three helmet are "off" from the originals. SST is the worst. Plus my exaple from their 6th Sturmpionier figure has a thick visor that is off to the left side.
TB appear to me to be a little flat on top. BGY appear a little too rounded and sloped sided.

The three rivetts just above the flare, and just below teh dome, are for the removable lienrs. What appears to be a rivet near the vertical center line is the stud for the M1891 Pickelhaubve type chinstraps use on the M1816 and abandoned with the metal liner band on the M1917 and M1918.

The lugs or studs are for the armored visor "brow plate."

The visor was made in one size. However the helmet shells were made in two common sizes, 64, and 68, with a small number in 68. That is the measurement of the shell inside at the rivet hole line.
Unlike some countries, the Germans made sized liners AND sized shells. Plus the liners were adjustable with a drawstring as well as pads or stuff "pillows."

Becasue the shells varied in size, and the visor did not, they used steps or 'washers" on the visor stud to fit. The Size 68 had none, the Size 66 had one, and the Size 64 had two (in terms of thickness, not really two spearate 'washers.'

So, the repro helmets we have are Size 66's, umless one replaces the visor lugs.

And so, any 1:6 dimensions should be driven by the Size 66 originals for comparison and contrast..

Normally, usually, generally, a key visual feature of WWI German helmets is that they NUG appear large on the wearer's head as compared to the "smaller" WWII look.

IMHo, the SST helmet is too far off, and should be replaced by a TB or BGT. Or, at a minimum the thick and off-set visor be removed and a replacement added from sheet styrene.
Or remove the visor altogethr to make a 'M1918" Turk contract with no visor or cutaway visor that would be great for post War Freikorps kitbashes.
 

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Hallo!

"I'd recommend a micrometer for smaller objects..."

It was not the tool, but rather my inability to conceptualize a way to use the tool to take the measurement.

The height of the visor is an open space with nothing to be the other ""side" of the measurement taking. I had thought about trying to pencil a straight line back onto the body of the helmet an dmeasure the distance between the line and the bottom of the helmet.

I have micrometers. To me they are best suited for measuring something with two sides to be measured not just one.

Being left-handed, I am not the swiftest with right-handed tools. Calipers were bad enough....

;) :)
 

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Hallo!

"I'd recommend a micrometer for smaller objects..."

It was not the tool, but rather my inability to conceptualize a way to use the tool to take the measurement.

The height of the visor is an open space with nothing to be the other ""side" of the measurement taking. I had thought about trying to pencil a straight line back onto the body of the helmet an dmeasure the distance between the line and the bottom of the helmet.

I have micrometers. To me they are best suited for measuring something with two sides to be measured not just one.

Being left-handed, I am not the swiftest with right-handed tools. Calipers were bad enough....

;) :)
I would place the helmet on a flat board and measure using that.
You just have to subtract the thickness of the board... ;)

>>>
 

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Hallo!

Using a flat surface, and the depth indicator of the calipers, I got a close "eyeball" measurement set:

Visor H1:

TB= 2.75
BGT= 3.54
SST= 8.15

Historically, while the "duck bill" visor of the Stahlschutzhelm aka Stahlhelm gave superior protection to the face from above, it really hindered upper forward sight. Especially when one was craw;ing on one's stomach and trying to look forward.

It is not known exactly when, but in very small numbers that problem was looked at by the high visor version which placed the visor about a quarter inch higher than normal.
But, either earlier on, or later on... there was also a full visor version where the visor came out of the front of the dome higher up- making it easier to see forward while crawling.

The restricitng of vision remained a problem with the general issue, which can sometimes be seen in original photographs where the lads have shifted the entire back on their head exposing more of the face and clearing the eyes better.

I almost had an Austrian M1917 shell in Size 68 once from a Civil War dealer in Gettysburg.
Then he decided not sell it as he believed he had a very rare German Palestine campaign helmet because it was khaki brown and not field gray.

:)

Anyways, we all have different needs and wants in the 1:6 World. Some more History-Light, others more History-Heavy.
As in authentic reenacting and living history circles, the Gold Standard for reproductions is how closely does a reproduction something compare to the original it is supposed to be a reproduction of. Rather than comparing reproductions with other reproductions. And then decide for ourselves how close or how far we need to be or can live with or without.

Ideally, IMHO, we could measure real World WWI Stahlhelms and compare the 1:6 versions as to how "scale" they really are.

;) :)
 
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