Is the 1/6 Military figure hobby on the way out?

[aluffarb]

I know some of you may see this thread and say, "Oh No!, not another one of those 1/6 hobby dying posts." Well not quite. My take is that while the 1/6 hobby in general appears to be doing OK, the part that deals with military figures (historical and modern) appears to be greatly slowing down and may be on the verge of expiring. Now certainly the customizing side of the hobby will likely go on no matter what. Guys like Tony Barton, Andy Sheppard, Vettius, Ransome Chua, et al will continue to customize military figures and define the state of the art. However, in my opinion we may be witnessing the demise of commercially-produced 1/6 scale military action figures. I can't recall a time in the past 15 years since Dragon released "Hans" that we have gone as long as we have without an announcement of an upcoming military figure. Certainly there are upcoming releases but these have all been previewed at least 4 months ago and some like the Cal-Tek RAF pilot significantly longer than that. Dragon, the one time mainstay and leader of the hobby has, after a long period of decay in quality and innovation, completely dropped off the grid insofar as new 1/6 military figures are concerned. While companies like DID, Soldier Story, DAM!!, Playhouse and others have pushed the hobby to new heights insofar as quality is concerned, think how long it has been since they previewed a new military figure. DID's FBI figure and much anticipated Churchill are not really true military figures per se, nor are DAM!!'s Nazi zombies for that matter. The only recent previews have come from ACE Workshop, which appears to have risen from the 1/6 dead, with their MACVSOG and FFL figures. The majors though are conspicuous in their absence. Upcoming WW2-themed military figures are even more sparse than modern figures and I can't recall any recent preview of a figure from this time period. This is especially upsetting as WW2 is the era that was the foundation of the hobby at one point. DID is showing signs that they may be following the route of Hot Toys by emphasizing figures based on movie characters with the military oriented figures being dropped (unless related to a movie). The loss of Hot Toys as the one time leader in Modern Figure production was and continues to be deeply felt even though other companies have taken their place. Loosing DID as a source of WW2 figures would really put the kabosh on those of us with an interest in that era as DML is nowhere to be seen, Soldier Story though making great figures doesn't release nearly as many WW2 figures as DID, and companies like King's Toys, Cal Tek, and others only produce the occasional WW2 figure.

I've always felt that the 1/6 military action figure hobby provided a wonderful educational opportunity to learn a great deal about history and current events, especially for some of the younger hobbyists. I'm pushing 60 and though having a sound background in history (I minored in History and Political Science in college) have nonetheless managed to greatly advance and enhance my knowledge and understanding of history as a direct consequence of this hobby. This came about either as a result of researching information to produce historically accurate figures or due to my interest being piqued by a figure to read more about a particular battle, war, or time period. One is never to old to learn. I don't think any other theme in the 1/6 hobby has the capacity for the hobbyist to learn so much as the military-based figures do.

We will likely be able to continue to kitbash figures for some time with the vast amount of pieces/parts that are already out there. Naturally, the more desired items will dry up the fastest. Having companies like BattleGear Toys and their large selection will help but even they are not introducing new items as often as in the past. I hope this slowdown is just temporary and things will pick up but as I mentioned above I can't recall it ever being this slow since the hobby resurfaced and surged in the late 90s-early 2000s. I hope I'm wrong but I sense that the future does not bode well for the military side of this hobby.

[DeltaForceChung]

No.

[Cochino]

Never, those are the lifeblood of this hobby. People would get tired faster of Iron Man mk. 62 rather than another SEAL

[The Ulsterman]

Good question, and in my opinion, don't think so.
What it does mean though, that as it does slow down more and more, we may see more and more uniform makers and customisers come to the fore. (i hope)

The likes of Vettius, Andy and Tony and a host of others make what is not already available, or at least they improve on what is already out there.
Take it all way?..and those who still want that Napoleonic uniform, or whatever, will try to make it.

It is true that more and more the 1/6th scene has veered towards film/movie characters/monsters and villains etc etc....so yes we could be doing with an injection of some unique military eras/theatres.

There is enough military history out there to keep the 1/6th hobby going for years and years to come, but it depends a lot on whether the major companies are willing to take the risk...and of that i doubt, after all, they do have to be sure of good sales before delving into a new genre.
I am hoping the annivarsaries of 1914-18 will bring us some excellent and exciting stuff, but who knows?
Just my thoughts.
Neil.

[DeltaForceChung]

To elaborate, there will always continue to a niche audience for historical military from a variety of periods; however, as for the current bread & butter of modern offerings that will vary based on what we’re seeing in the 1:1 world currently and what’s to come in the future.

I also believe we may see more futuristic/hybrid offerings such as DAM’s GHOST GLINT “Ryder Watson” figures blending some aspects of real world military & fictional elements based on popular books, films, & video games.

[onesixthpolice]

DML seems to have re-focused on their 1/6 line of vehicles, but even that has slowed down.

As for Dragon figures, maybe they got tired of all the negativity and bashing on the various forums that some "hobbyists" made it their mission to perform......a big thanks to all those who participated in that. Goes to show that ya have to be careful what you wish for......

In any case, companies make stuff for profit, and maybe there just isn't enough interest in the stuff they make to warrant making it any more....remember, the more they make and sell, the cheaper it is for the consumer.....if they find there is a very small market for said figures, they may think, why bother at all......

[jkidd41011]

Being today is the 150th anniversary of Gettysburg...you would have thought someone would have come out with something for that?

[pukingdog]

The hobby, the companies, and we "mandoll people" are all operating in a different mode these days, just like the rest of the world, post-financial apocalypse. That said, the hobby continues, because it will whether there are affordable resources to support it, or not. For all the commercial advances, the best of the hobby is still in the skills and enthusiasm of the member body.

[Sir Eaton Flipflop]

No.

There are some pretty neat things on the horizon.

[lastintheirclass]

i think people get overwhelmed by the proliferation of licenses and pop culture products, but that's a different audience coming into the hobby from a different door.

military 1/6 will always be popular just like barbie (not making a judgment or implying anything there). my point being just because it's not front and center all the time doesn't mean that the enthusiasts are just as enthusiastic as always.

: D

[santopapa]

No.

ACE just came out with a French trooper. And along with a few faithful, we keep our fingers crossed for a Russian. Point is, there will always be a military figure to be released every now and then.

[vince]

Well, I remember G.I. Joes in the '60's, here it is in the 2013's.
I had two in 1966, now I have well over 200.(Dragon,. DID,BBI).
Mattel went into the Ken dolls and cars and so forth, but, Barbie is still on the shelves.
The hobby never dies for the true collectors!

[AV8TORJoe]

The 1/6th Military figure hobby will NEVER go out of style. Just wish the manufacturers
could turn out more Aviator figures from all eras, then I'd be a super happy camper!

[Toyscout]

No, far from it. As the 1:1 modern military world constantly updating current equipment and inventing new ones, the manufactures of 1:6 military figures will follow and come up with new stuff, though in a much slower pace. Some may choose to go back in time and produce figures from previous era. Either way, the hobby goes on.

The major problem IMO is lack of variety in subjects. I am a big fan of modern US military figures, but I‘d love to see figures of other country such as Canadian Forces to be produced soon by big manufactures like SS and DAM.

[CobraTrooper11]

why are we having this conversation? the obvious answer is no! civilians will no doubt be made more often, but only because this is what we have been asking for when not seeking new Army recruits. both will no doubt compete for the market and both will win.

[diosoth]

Most of the companies making 1:6 switched to movie licenses and fantasy properties. I'm guessing a large chunk of the military toy market is soldiers and their friends and families.

I'd be willing to say that modern US military figures aren't selling well worldwide. Kids might be into this stuff but they're far too expensive for kids to even own, and it's not like you can go into stores and just buy them anyway. For that matter I almost never see anything military outside of cheap figures at Dollar General and the occasional PTE at Big Lots. The major chains won't touch it and the major toy manufacturers know it's got no real market.

Even GI Joe is pretty much outdated, it's fantasy version of the military just isn't in demand and it's a brand held onto by people unwilling to let it go or admit it's not a big thing anymore.

WW2 stuff is probably a hard sell because lots of people do not want anything Nazi related. The only times I've ever seen figures with swastikas in stores were those old 12" Hogan's Heroes figures, and officer Kroenen from the Hellboy movie line,and all those were at specialty shops. Every Red Skull figure excludes them and there is zero chance you'd get it in major stores. Even the "heroes" are a tough sell, because most of the major heroes of the war are so long gone in history that modern generations don't really care, and no one really likes Winston Churchill for a lot of his racist sentiments.

It's not dying, but the market is too niche for it to be a major seller with the current world political climate.

[AdamC]

There are several factors at play, chief among them that the national retailer experiment that the hobby had a few years proved rather disastrous for quite a few people. While that happened you've had a global shift of production to China which has raised their standard of living and costs of product, while all major currencies have been suffering from major manipulation causing high inflation post housing/stock crash. All of that will effect the market for the product turning it to a more premium space with fewer, but better releases.

That being said I think there is no shortage of interesting product coming out, but the hobby is having to overcome a few hurdles as it struggles with having to transition to far more licensed model. WWII products might be having a bit of a harder time as the older population that buys them is more effected financially over the last few years. The modern military products seem to be selling quite well as they have broader appeal.

In the mean time it seems many collectors are stressing themselves out over a hobby that should be a distraction from stress. An odd dynamic!

[pukingdog]

I don't find these discussions repetitive, but rather, an ongoing self-examination of ourselves and our hobby. Very good points made here, and not only can we all learn so much more about history, we also get a hard lesson in economics and human nature.

We definitely need to remind ourselves that, as Adam says, ours is "a hobby that should be a distraction from stress."

[dadrab]

Call the ER...call a medic...press the panic button...

[DeltaForceChung]

I don't find these discussions repetitive, but rather, an ongoing self-examination of ourselves and our hobby. Very good points made here, and not only can we all learn so much more about history, we also get a hard lesson in economics and human nature.

We definitely need to remind ourselves that, as Adam says, ours is "a hobby that should be a distraction from stress."

--

Unless stress is a hobby unto itself.

[CobraTrooper11]

There are several factors at play, chief among them that the national retailer experiment that the hobby had a few years proved rather disastrous for quite a few people. While that happened you've had a global shift of production to China which has raised their standard of living and costs of product, while all major currencies have been suffering from major manipulation causing high inflation post housing/stock crash. All of that will effect the market for the product turning it to a more premium space with fewer, but better releases.

That being said I think there is no shortage of interesting product coming out, but the hobby is having to overcome a few hurdles as it struggles with having to transition to far more licensed model. WWII products might be having a bit of a harder time as the older population that buys them is more effected financially over the last few years. The modern military products seem to be selling quite well as they have broader appeal.

In the mean time it seems many collectors are stressing themselves out over a hobby that should be a distraction from stress. An odd dynamic!

well said, but at 20 years old would i be wrong for buying WWII gear and figures?
i don't know but i do know that this hobby needs more retail presence but not the way that hasblow does it. i mean real retail presence. where say one lot of police figs are availible at most toys r us stores. and i do know that big lots would be a great place to sell some at a discount.

[AdamC]

I think anyone should buy whatever interests them without worrying about external factors. If you have an interest, go right ahead!

Retail presence just wouldn't work with the price of figures where they are at today, and the cost of getting placement at retail is probably a big part why 21st is no longer with us. Putting any product into mass retail is a huge financial gamble. As it stands, the margins of 1/6 product would be out of step with what mass retail would be looking for, which would translate into higher prices. Given typical retail overhead requirements, you'd probably have to raise 1/6 products pricing by 20-30% to get it on shelf outside of specialty retail, and even then you'd have to throw marketing dollars at it for placement, advertising, etc. You can see this retail dilemma bubbling up in the hobby frequently, there was a thread I spotted at SSF where a retailer got very defensive of his pricing while deriding a competitor who didn't operate a retail store. I can understand his point as the pressure of covering a retail lease makes it difficult to price product where customers would like to see it.

The politics of retail have changed heavily in the last 10-20 years, and its all about direct importing or having a vendor pay through the nose for product placement. Grocery stores are a great example of this, where every end cap, every eye level of shelf is bought and paid for. At places like Toys R Us its all about protecting your turf, and paying to keep competitors out of the store. It's a very cynical business these days unfortunately. To those old enough to remember Toys R Us from the 80's, its current incarnation is an abomination. Low end direct import product, and one or two toy manufacturers controlling most of the product range.

Seasonal plays through discount direct importers like big lots are probably the only realistic opportunity unless a scaled down major license product gets placed in a toys r us or such. It is tough to get the lower cost items over here because you really have to be importing 20-40 foot containers with lower value 1/6 items to make the pricing work not something your typical 1/6 retailer will do.

If you have an interest in lower priced products like this, then consider supporting retailers like Cotswold who are doing a good job in bringing in alternatives in that area while maintaining a very reasonable price point. I think its very commendable that they are still trying to appeal to younger collectors or collectors who can't keep pace with every new $100+ product release.

well said, but at 20 years old would i be wrong for buying WWII gear and figures?
i don't know but i do know that this hobby needs more retail presence but not the way that hasblow does it. i mean real retail presence. where say one lot of police figs are availible at most toys r us stores. and i do know that big lots would be a great place to sell some at a discount.

[Sgt_Steiner]

Well not quite. My take is that while the 1/6 hobby in general appears to be doing OK, the part that deals with military figures (historical and modern) appears to be greatly slowing down and may be on the verge of expiring.

<snip>

I'm pushing 60 and though having a sound background in history (I minored in History and Political Science in college) have nonetheless managed to greatly advance and enhance my knowledge and understanding of history as a direct consequence of this hobby. This came about either as a result of researching information to produce historically accurate figures or due to my interest being piqued by a figure to read more about a particular battle, war, or time period. One is never to old to learn. I don't think any other theme in the 1/6 hobby has the capacity for the hobbyist to learn so much as the military-based figures do.

<snip>

Having companies like BattleGear Toys and their large selection will help but even they are not introducing new items as often as in the past. I hope this slowdown is just temporary and things will pick up but as I mentioned above I can't recall it ever being this slow since the hobby resurfaced and surged in the late 90s-early 2000s. I hope I'm wrong but I sense that the future does not bode well for the military side of this hobby.

I didn't think it is just the military side of the hobby that was suffering.
Consider the following:
* We are still feeling the effect of the KFC...I mean the GFC (Global Financial Crisis).
* This hobby is dependent of discretionary income/spending, for many/most.
* Manufacturing costs are increasing in China.
* Wages are increasing.
* The Chinese currency isn't as artificially deflated as it used to be.
* The increasing cost of the products are compounding the financial sensitivities.

The world economy is slowly recovering, but there is a resultant defensive mindset that is still affecting consumer spending.
Here in Australia, personal savings are at their highest for decades.
A case of "once bitten, twice shy..."

Eventually things will turn around in regards to greater discretionary spending, surely, due in part to property price stability/growth encouraging a greater sense of personal wealth.
Whether or not this will alter the slow down in the 1/6th military industry is something time will tell, imo...

"Pushing 60"?
You are still a baby like me...

To some of the younger people, this hobby may be more about the visuals...
To some of the more mature collectors, it may be more about the psychological/zeitgeist and historical aspects involved.

[DeltaForceChung]

To some of the younger people, this hobby may be more about the visuals...To some of the more mature collectors, it may be more about the psychological/zeitgeist and historical aspects involved.

--

SO . . .

The younger is all about "STYLE" when it comes to the 1:6 hobby.

The more mature collectors is all about "SUBSTANCE" when it comes to the 1:6 hobby.

That's one way of looking at it.

As for me . . . I appreciate a balance or style & substance overall, but I can't help it when a figure tips excessively one way or the other depending on it's subject/theme.

[Steve O.]

No

[Casual_Collector]

If only you could see what is being planned...

[Sgt_Steiner]

--

SO . . .

The younger is all about "STYLE" when it comes to the 1:6 hobby.

The more mature collectors is all about "SUBSTANCE" when it comes to the 1:6 hobby.

That's one way of looking at it.

As for me . . . I appreciate a balance or style & substance overall, but I can't help it when a figure tips excessively one way or the other depending on it's subject/theme.

I didn't say that...
It isn't a case of all or nuffing...
It isn't a black and white situation...
Life is overwhelmingly made up of shades of grey...

I said it may be a case of greater emphasis one way or 'tuther...
And then there is the question of people's individuality...

I won't buy a figure that looks wrong, and quality is paramount.
I am also more forgiving than many here about historic accuracy. Artistic license is not a dirty two words to me.
However, those who know me better will be aware that I place a lot of importance on the psychological aspects of the subject matter.
I also have the habit of including a history of the subject matter.

I have often mentioned the significance of black being a "power colour", and the effect of symbolism such as the Totenkopf.
To me the Zeitgeist (spirit of the time) around the collectible is of fascination...
I enjoy engaging in an anthropological assessment of the figure...
The raison d'etre (reason for being) of a historic (or otherwise) figure representation.

The Terminator T800 figure is another example of the influence/indication of human psychology.
Once again you have the black "power colour" involved... and in addition to this, you have the multiplying factor of *black leather* symbolizing cultural rebellion on one hand with it's association with lawlessness/independence of the bikie and "rebel without a clue" (a la James Dean) culture, and on the other, the association of the colour black with something sinister such as the Grim Reaper or the Tolkienian Ringwraiths (The Nazgûl (Black Speech: Ringwraiths, sometimes written Ring-wraiths), also known as the Nine Riders or Black Riders (or simply the Nine),)

Surely this common fascination/theme throughout history is a profound indication of aspects of human psychology manifested in this type of symbolism.

Errr...so no, it is much more complicated than you suggested...

[TheseArentBarbies]

If only you could see what is being planned...

Doesn't excite me very much because all that means is we'll go broke faster at these current $$$ prices.

[onesixthpolice]

Nobody's forcing you to buy everything that comes out.......

[DeltaForceChung]

Nobody's forcing you to buy everything that comes out.......

--



There was a time when I would have disagreed, but that's in the past.