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What are grunts wearing in Afghanistan?

37K views 186 replies 24 participants last post by  Toyscout 
#1 ·
What are grunts wearing in Afghanistan?

Disclaimer
NOT A NEW PRODUCT THREAD! Just the facts here please! If you want to discuss the pros and cons of a specific figure over another, how your brand is better than another brand or how you found a picture on google which is definitive proof that Rangers wear slippers please take it to the new product threads and argue among the fanboys. Ground rule, be polite. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Opinions supported by facts have more weight than, ”Well, I “think” it should be this way because it’s cool.”

Hi Guys;

Been inundated with questions about what grunts are wearing in Afghanistan both here and on chat. Decided I would share for those interested in doing research. I make it a point not to comment in new product threads because of the negativity that often follows when I share what I've learned. So to avoid being banned or suspended for defending myself I’m starting this thread for guys to get and share info. If you want to stir the pot please take it to the new product threads. If you come here to start crap and drama it’s obvious to the mods who’s starting what.

Everyone is welcome to share so the community has a source of info for accuracy for those interested in that. Encourage you to include your sources if you can so the reader can weigh the credibility of the info you are sharing.

Now to answer the most common questions.

What are grunts wearing in Afghanistan? (Grunts typically applies to CONVENTIONAL Infantry though I personally expand it to include those troops that make their living outside the wire in direct support of Infabtry units like combat engineers, medics, dog handlers etc.)

Multicam in an ACU cut is what is issued along with a couple of combat shirts. The current issue is four uniforms and two shirts or at least it was according to SGM (Ret) House of the Army’s Rapid Fielding Initiative office as of Sep ’11. Soldiers augment issue with personally purchased gear. It’s few and far between where conventional troops will drop $300 on a crye battle uniform.

MC helmet cover (just like the UCP version but in MC).

Plate carrier vs. IOTV?

Combat troops (those that typically leave the wire) are issued both as of sep’11 discussion I had with PEO Soldier reps. The plate carrier is much more popular according to my clients. Not everyone is infantry though or for one reason or another (shortages, chain of command, vehicle vs. foot patrol) you'll see the IOTV in use on occasion. Often it will be stripped to essentials (no throat or collar pads) and maybe just the groin pad which is a PAIN if you have to climb.

ACU vs. MC kit in Afghanistan? When for what? Confusing!

YES! Starting around Aug ’10 the Army started issuing OCP (Army acronym for MC) to conventional troops deploying to Afghanistan. If you were already there you were likely not to get a set. Venivicivici shared he didn’t get or see MC in OEF until he was relieved by the 101st. I had deploying troops to include the 48th BDE (Ga Nat’l Guard) in my shop that had been issued MC in Aug’10. Why the partial issue/confusion? Many just don’t realize how big the Army is at times. The decision to issue MC isn’t made in a vacuum. Decisions hadn’t been made on pouches, vests, manufacturers etc. When decisions were made quantities didn’t exist and so units were prioritized, some given partial issues, some got nothing etc. Bureaucracy at its best but in defense you have to centralize decisions for organizations as big as the Army. Like we saw when the Army switched to coffee stain kit and later UCP. Looks like It wasn’t until mid ’11 that there were enough MC and late ’11 until troops got issued both plate carriers and IOTVs. Before then the issue of plate carriers was haphazard and included four different types of plate carriers.

Ammo pouch observation.

Seems to be about a 50/50 mix between two mag ammo pouches and shingle/racks. Soldiers are issued both now. They weren’t always so you see a mix. Advantage to shingles is it’s easier to get in/out of vehicles/aircraft in shingles. Less profile. It also helps getting into the narrower doorways of Afghanistan. On the downside they suck up a lot of space on your vest. It’s a personal preference thing. Recent vets might have some more insight. I was told that the Rangers prefer the shingles for the reasons I describe so the thinking is sound and the conventional guys often mimic or learn the same lessons that the operators do.

If this thread/post has been a help please say so. It’s not worth my typing this up if folks don’t care. It also demonstrates that there is an interest in this kind of info as folks participate in the hobby. I encourage any OSW member to PM me but if the mods allow this thread to exist separate from the new product threads this may be a way to share info without the drama of whose brand is better or” I just want to be different or cool” which is FINE. There’s no need to feel threatened if your search for “artistic expression” isn’t exactly the same as most ground truth.

Additional input about weapons, sights (vvv shared some good info in chat last night about sights) is welcome especially if it's bsed on experience or discussions with those that have done it.

Regards,

Will
 
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#172 ·
I have only had a few scout sniper customers but several Army snipers and they have all asked for their actual "sniper/shooting look" though we talked about insertion and what they wore otherwise. I can also share what the manuals and common sense would say. Some of the other members might be able to chime in and add to the body of knowledge (actually I think snipers might be a good new thread if there's interest).

It would be a safe bet that a current sniper over the last decade or two carries a sidearm with at least two extra mags. That's pretty much SOP.

As with most things what a sniper wears depends on the mission. How is he inserting? How long will he be out there? What kind of help does he have? Which and how many rifles is he taking? Where is he setting up? Etc. (see why this can be a second thread) It also makes a difference if he's a "sniper" or a "designated marksman". They are different but have similarities.

Many snipers take off their body armor once they get in position. That way they can have a solid comfortable position as they lay on the ground. In those cases the body armor set up would be pretty similar to a grunt. If for some reason the sniper felt he might need to move quickly or couldn't afford to take off body armor a rack that attaches or worn over the vest would be likely. WORST case where a sniper would have to do his job while wearing body armor and pouches (e.g. not issued a rack) he's going to want to keep his shooting shoulder and (if he's laying down) his front area open. Laying down on top of ammo pouches isn't the most comfortable or stable.

Pouches that would a sniperwould like to keep "handy" would be a pouch to keep his shooting log (a notebook). Snipers have specialized equipment that would be carried depending on the mission. The mission would also determine how it was carried. For instance 24 hr hide in an urban setting might demand a pack where things like spotting scopes, laser range finders etc. would be carried. If it was just an overnight mission with plenty of security in an area the sniper has operated in maybe he has a spare pouch with a night sight. As you can tell, it all depends.

I hope that helps and doesn't confuse you further. Like I said, maybe this should get its own thread?
 
G
#173 ·
Thanks, Will. You’ve been great help as always. I know it’s not going to be a straight forward answer when it comes to pouches, but you do make me think a lot more about the mission instead of focusing on individual gear. It makes more sense that way, to be mission specific. Thanks again.
 
G
#174 · (Edited)
Hi Will, I have a question regarding combat boots. Is the new Bellville 950 going to replace the current ones for both Army and Marines? It is meant to go with the Multicam ACU, right? It looks a bit like the Bellville 550 and a bit like Danner but without the EAG. It could go well with the MCCU and FROG, I suppose. I wonder if the MC would adopt the new style boots without the EAG on them.

Thanks in advance
 
#177 ·
I have a question: what you people (grunts) think about chest rigs? I was thinking I'm a big dude and wearing a vest with pouches attached in a prone position would make me stick out EVEN more. My opinion would be a chest rig would work good for me. But I'm just a FS/11b wannabe.

What for you guys think?

I was looking at this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOLLE-Assau...003&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=4&sd=370663773915&
 
#178 ·
silent_05, This is one of those questions that will get you a lot of different answers. I'm fine with a chest rig, but I prefer a plate carrier for the ease of having my plates and ammo pouches on the same piece of gear. You bring up a good point on how mags on your front will raise your profile. One way to mitigate this (and what I do) is to mount one row of single mag pouches on the chest, and then wear a duty belt/battle belt with additional mag pouches mounted to the strong hand side. In addition to allowing me to get my precious cuerpo lower to the ground, this transfers a lot of weight from my trunk to my hips, making it easier to move all of that weight for longer periods of time.

Now, as to the specific rig that you posted, I would steer away from Condor gear except for their jackets and shirts. They are cheaper than most, but aren't built nearly as well as a lot of other brands that I could name. Remember, you don't want your plate carrier, chest rig, or any other piece of kit to fall apart on you in the field a couple days into a multi-day mission.

"Quality is never cheap, but it's always affordable." - Anonymous

My .02
 
#180 ·
Sorry guys, I don't visit OSW very often anymore…

Toy Scout - pictures or a link would help but things are very different now. Multiple boots are authorized for wear in today's Army unlike how it used to be or how many armies equip their troops. Boots have to be between 8"-10" tall, made of tan rough side out cattlehide leather, with a plain toe, and with a soling system similar in color to the tan upper materials. The soling materials cannot exceed two inches in height, when measured from the bottom of the outsole,
http://www.army.mil/article/10228/

A LOT of boots meet this standard and boots tend to be one of those items that even individual soldiers will spend their limited funds on.

Silent - good points on the chest rig raising your profile. The biggest factor determining if troops will use one is if it's issued or not. Most guys aren't going to drop a couple hundred bucks on a chest rig. They don't get paid that much or have as much cool kit issued as spec ops. The army has issued racks on a limited basis to conventional guys and some have taken issued mesh vests and worn them backrwards or modified them into becoming racks. Most guys that have requested I use a rack on their custom soldier were mechanized or motorized troops. The rack allowed them to take off their gear in the vehicle without removing their body armor. I've also had the request from snipers who need to be able to go prone often.

Hope that helps guys…
 
#183 ·
On the flip side, whenever I knew I was going to be going into the prone position, I would use the chest rig to my advantage. Push it up to your chest and rest your body on top of it. By doing that, you are taking all the weight off your elbows. When you stand up, it should fall back into place.

I have personally never owned a PIG plate carrier or the chest rig, but I am a fan of SKD. They are a good company with great CS. Apparently, Paul Howe designed the original according to the description. He would be in the category of guys who has BTDT and has probably put a considerable amount of thought into that design. The question you need to ask yourself is: "Is this the setup that would work best for me?".
 
#184 ·
Ditto to all that VVV said. As a matter of fact, I received an E-Mail alert about that rig and was planning to post it as a "possible" for you to check out, silent. I have a package from SKD coming to me right now. This is a company that does NOT sell poorly made gear, so from a quality point of view, this could be worth checking out.
 
#186 ·
Steve clued me into SKD and I have not been disappointed. They have great CS and their shipping time is unbeatable! On another note check out Tyr Tactical, they make some phenomenal gear and some one of a kind pieces as well. I have a few items on my kit that is made by them and its some very practical kit.
 
G
#187 ·
I've read a newspaper article recently which says the ARMY is test-wearing a new digital cammie uniform. A photo of what looks very much like the AOR2 is attached on it. It's interesting news considering Multicam is a relatively new standard.

Of course, digital cammie is nothing new to the ARMY. ACU back then was also a digital cammie. However, if this AOR2-liked cammie is adopted for woodland environment one'd assume the AOR1 or equivalent will also be adopted for desert terrain which means the ARMY is going to have the same or very similar looking uniform as that used in Navy currently. So thorectically speaking, in a desert surrounding, ARMY, Marine and Navy will look almost identical in their uniforms.

Of course, this doesn't mean much to us kitbashers. However, I can almost see a new series of ARMY figure in this new uniform coming out from SS and DT in the shortly future to replace the current Multicam ones. More new figures. Very interesting indeed.
 
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