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Old 08-31-2012, 22:09
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KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body var.

KP02A body review, and side-by-side comparison with HT's (Noland/Barney Ross/Whiplash) body variant.

Some have requested a direct comparison between the 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaustic Plastik
I really hope to have your feedbacks, suggestions, critics!!
Feedbacks, Suggestions and Critiques... This would be all three.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaustic Plastik
It's between the model used in Expendables and T-800
More of the former by more ways than one.

Review
1. As suspected by myself and few others, KPA02 is "base on" HT Barney Ross/Whiplash body. A more accurate description is: KP used the base HT body and:
a) Adding sculpt to the exterior ot the torso, abs, arms and legs so that it varies from HT's.
b) The pelvis shape (exterior/function) remains mostly unchanged except for the slight shift of the screw holes.
c) The slight changes to shoulder rotation pin that (inadvertently) makes the Arms modular (you can pop it out of the socket).
d) The internals are almost 100% "recast" based on HT's body. Hence, good replacement/swappable parts with HT's bodies.
e) The whole body from the hips/pelvic region to the top of tip of the neck is the same length as the HT's, the upper legs are longer by approx 0.5 cm, while lower legs would be the same/similar to the extended lower legs (together with extended pegs option too) of HT variants, with standard TT lower legs it's approx 1.7cm longer. Proportionally, KP's legs seems too long.

The Good/Improvements:
1. Materials used are of good (I'd put it: preferred) quality. It gives some flexing while materials used by HT are more rigid which tends to break.
2. Thick PVC material used for the upper torso (which brings a weakness). HT's very thin by comparison.


The Bad/Weakness:
1. The far too thick PVC of the upper torso around the rib area, making it like fat build-up in odd places.
2. The knees bent has far too sharp angles jutting out.
3. The base of the neck is rather loose, so adjustment through a screw at the back would alleviate this, but you can't (which will be discuss in "the ugly").
4. Because of the pin design of the shoulders, it would be more prone to be loose, swinging back and forth over- a-time-course/frequent posing.


The Ugly:
1) The claims as a complete in-house KP 3D CAD design.
2) Drill out (Stripping) the "philips" screw head of the 3 screws holding the internal torso together, so no typical screw driver can "expose" further internals. Well, it took me all of 5 minutes dremel, to get the screw to be fully functioning again, I do appreciate a good mental challenge/obstacle. The QUESTION: Why create such an inconvenience? (I'll leave it at that)

Personal opinions:
KP did recreate a good alternative body (or duplicate body) with some weaknesses and some improvements. Being a retail product this is bound to be dissected to its basic components and be exposed for what it is. I personally disagree with the claims made. I would call a square, a square. Be it HT or any other companies, they would expect their products to be dissected with appropriate merits/credits to novelty of design.

Note on pics, I've used a compact wide angle camera so there will be some perspective distortion.... I could always break out my DSLR with macro-lens
Pictures: Left (KP02A): Right (Noland's body)

Pelvis:

Abdomen:

Upper Torso:

Odd sharp knees:

Arms/shoulder joint:



Proof on concept. The interchangeable parts of KP's and HT's bodies. Note, because of slight difference in sizes you can't by default use Noland's hips and legs on KP02A's pelvis, a minor mod will be needed to do so (as seen, you'll have no problems doing the opposite). Right: Hybrid as indicated by the colour. KP's inner neck peg and Arms/Shoulders on Noland's inner & outer upper torso, connected to KP's abdomen which is in turn to Noland's Pelvic and again to KP's hips and legs:



Odin's body: KP02A, (arms' obviously different) this is length/proportion comparison:




Needless to say I disagree with the following comments (with proof), "and why the bias?" is all that I'll add.:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerbee View Post
Similar, yes, copy, hell no!

Give the guy a break, he's just starting out and needs all the support he can get. We all have to start somewhere!

CHEERS!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dedguy View Post
People seem to have serious issues of perception that I don't understand. If people can't tell the difference between the Iron Man Mark III and Mark IV designs even when side by side. I am not surprised that they can tell the difference between two similarly sized 1/6 scale human bodies.

The Kaustic body is very different from any of the HT bodies in many ways. It's clearly a made-from-scratch body that uses some similar articulation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodonit00 View Post
I don't understand what you are getting at? Wouldn't you expect that 2 simalarily sized body builders to have similar proportions? Yes the side by side pics look similar. Similar in that that they are both muscular and have normal body parts. The design of the body though is vastly different. I don't know how much it cost to design a body but I guess it would be Thousands if not Tens of Thousands. I know if I had a company and spent that kind of money I would be offended if someone came along and said "but it's a recast of Hot Toys".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Geese View Post
KP did NOT clone Hot Toys muscular body, damn it. You are just someone who's very jelly for the fact that you can't come out with your own muscular body.
p.s. Take a product for what it is... alot of people do appreciate the availability and variation that KP bodies provide.
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Old 08-31-2012, 22:36
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

Interesting review. The KP-02 is the HT clone or sorts. The one that is sold on eBay for 25.00 right>?
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:56
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

Really thorough review, that answers some questions people have had. Kinda imagine this thread might get a little ugly, but thanks for the time to do the review for sure.
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Old 09-01-2012, 03:08
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

Well mate, a good review for sure , but because here you telling (in some way) that I'm a copycat of an other company and a liar too, I think I have to add something to your review.

I will take of course your critics in the proper consideration, and for sure this body can have a lot of improvements and some weakness (so some of your critics are very welcome).. But some of your points, are honestly NOT CORRECT (and I can add also that are unfair)

a) Adding sculpt to the exterior of the torso, abs, arms and legs so that it varies from HT's.
How you can prove that? Did you see how our sculptor work? Did you see the material used for the sculpt? Do you have any kind of prove that we "added" something on a base of another company? Sorry to tell you, but this it's totally untrue and honestly unfair. But I will take thinking that not everybody can like me and what I do... So for sure you are not a fan of KP And this is ok for me.

Our muscular parts are made on a 100% new cast of the body. And until you cannot REALLY prove your conjectures, I will take as was is: just your speculation.
I like also to add something, that on internet you can find the prove that what I'm saying it's true, and this proof are the sculpture used for this body, where you can see clearly that it's 100% new sculpt. As you can see from the pictures of the first prototype, that at the beginning a lot of mechanism (like shoulder mechanism) was not even added to the prototype, because is something that we added later on a 3D cad study of stability.



b) The pelvis shape (exterior/function) remains mostly unchanged except for the slight shift of the screw holes.
If I have to copy something.. why change the placement of the screw holes? And didn't you noticed, (even if from the picture is clear) that the internal part is different, even the number of part used are not the same! Didn't is this clear enough from the pictures? Why spend time changing? Why change the screw hole places? And you know how is possible decided a placement for Screw hole? Studying a model with a 3d cad program. I decided to keep as much similar as possible some parts and function of the pelvis, to keep compatibility with Hot Toys bodies. It's not a secret (because I said too many time) that my target was to make something compatible with Hot Toys, to give customers possibility of change it and make something unique, shifting pieces, etc.etc.


c) The slight changes to shoulder rotation pin that (inadvertently) makes the Arms modular (you can pop it out of the socket).
It's something we did intentionally. For the same reason I explained in the previous point. Give you possibility to change easily also the Torso, and interchange it with Hot Toys torso (and new torso as well, that we hope to produce soon)

d) The internals are almost 100% "recast" based on HT's body. Hence, good replacement/swappable parts with HT's bodies.
Again this is not true. It's very clear from your pictures, that our internal parts are only COMPATIBLE with hot toys mechanism (except some parts that are universal compatible, so every company uses the same), similar but not identical. You call it "recast", I call it 3d CAD Cast study of material, stability and improvement of technology

e) The whole body from the hips/pelvic region to the top of tip of the neck is the same length as the HT's, the upper legs are longer by approx 0.5 cm, while lower legs would be the same/similar to the extended lower legs (together with extended pegs option too) of HT variants, with standard TT lower legs it's approx 1.7cm longer. Proportionally, KP's legs seems too long.
So again you prove two things: 1) that it's not made adding sculpt on an HT body, so otherwise why have it of different length on legs? 2) That our model was carefully studied and designed on a 3D CAD program. How do you think a body can have this kind of stability, even if his weight its quite high? All this things are designed using 3D programs.. And you should know this very well Last thing. I don't think our leg are too long. You can find a lot of GREAT LOOKING bashes on internet based on our bodies.. and they look COOL, not deformed.

So I hope it's quite clear now that:

a) Our body it's not made adding a sculpt on some other products (different length, and different shape of muscular parts)
b) We never keep secret that we studied a way to make some mechanism as compatible as possible with HT. Why this shock you so much?
c) To arrive at this result, it's CLEAR that we used a 3D CAD design program. This kind of things are impossible to design without the help of a program like that.

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Last edited by Kaustic Plastik; 09-01-2012 at 10:14.
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:16
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

Thanks for the review BeastX. I JUST literally bought my first KP2 (already have 2x KP01) an hour ago and found your review. Now I don't have do my own review.

Fabio, I say take it easy and relax. There are some things BeastX say is correct and the same for you. There is a mantra in the mass production industry - don't fix what is working.

You did improve on the body, made possibly better but was inspired by original HT design. Lots of people do this and there is nothing wrong with that.

But saying 100% original proof of concept including internal mechanism without a HT body for reference would be incorrect. It is obvious someone chosed to use what works from HT's body and make similar changes during production. The internal support structure is so close there is no denying this.

Screw hole placements to justify originality? That is a weak support argument since you could have even made it snap and hold together without screws in the first place.

Maybe BeastX's words were a bit harsh but that is his opinion as a consumer. I am also a consumer and still a fan of yours. But lets call an Ace an Ace and not a Jack.
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:17
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

I have been following the developement of KP's bodies very closely since the announcement of the KP01 (I've had 3 of the )!'s and enjoy them immensely) and I don't understand some of the animosity towards Fabio and what he is trying to do for us.
He designed and built a very nice and affordable muscle body when the only option available to us, as collectors, was paying a premium price for a Hot Toys muscle body parted out from a Royce, Dastan, Comedian, Wolverine set. And I really don't think that Hot Toys would have finally got around to offering the TTM 19 if not for KP showing how marketable a carded muscle body would be. Then we ask for a bigger body and he delivers and people start casting aspersions about recasting and copying HT's big bodies.
Really, is the HT mafia so pervasive that we can't be grateful when some other company comes along to give us what we asked for for so long?
Fabio has said repeatedly thaat he intentinally built in compatibility with the HT body to allow people to combine the bodies to come up with something new and original and the OP proved that this is possible. I
I guess I just don't understand what all the fuss is about. If you want a cool , affordable muscle body, buy this one. If you don't, don't. But constantly saying Fabio stole from HT, or is not telling the truth about how he designed the body is counterproductive and unfair.
I own a Ford and a Dodge and other than a slight variation in placement of the ignitions and gearshifts, they are pretty much exactly the same. I start them, put them in gear and steer them to where I want to go but no one I know runs around accusing Ford of ripping off Chrysler or vice versa.
Birds gotta fly, fish gotta swim. And unfortunately some people have to over analyse and find fault where there really is none to be found.
What if Fab and his team said "Screw you ungrateful so and so's. Go pay $100 plus for the HT T800 bodies. I'm tired of the ruckus."?
We all talk about how we'd like this in 1/6 th or that in 1/6th and when someone does there are an unfortunate few for whom nothing is ever good enough and we wonder why we don't get a lot of what we ask for.
I am not targeting the OP with this post but I realise that there has been a lot of rhetoric about this body and in the words of the late, great Rodney King, can't we all just get along?
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:23
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

BeastX, thanks for your review.

As for beign a "re-cast", I have to say, no.

As a hobby recaster, I can tell you that the plastic used in this carded body CANNOT be poured into the traditional molds that can be taken using the Silicon mold / Resin pouring "recast" process much associated with this hobby.

It has to be made into a metal mold that can be:
a) negative SAND molded, then metal is poured to form the actual mold
or
b) MILLED from a block of metal, which judging by the shape of the muscle, it was sand molded.

Given how the internal pieces are different:


You can see the different torso sockets, KP is a single peg socket shaped like a "T", the HT Noland body has a double peg socket shaped like this: Ŧ)

one can also see that each noland piece is actually two, while KP is 1.

Thickness is also a factor, but I would ask you to measure the square shaped hole in the pelvis, their different measure indictates that it, too, it's not a direct re-cast of any sort.

In the end I wouldn't call it a re-cast, neither 100% original.

Perhaps reverse-engineered to maintain compatibility would be a better judgement, which, as stated, was one of the original goals.

Again, after seeing the KP02 taken apart bit by bit with such great pictures leave me nothing but good impressions from KP's manufacturing quality, which equals their involvement in the hobby.

Thanks again for your review BeastX, as with that knolowedge in hand, I know that if I buy a KP02 body, it will be a great purchase for a better price than HT.
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:43
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

I agree with this. Nothing is 100% original, even outside of the hobby, so to expect it within is a tad silly.

I can definitely see where some points of design were drawn from HT's, but to be honest, when you have an industry leader marketing in demand items, some constructive borrowing is to be expected if one wishes to compete. One has to look no further than the automotive industry to see this on a daily basis, and very few of us cry "recaster" at every car we see on the road today.

This said, recast was not the proper choice of words, Though a 3d scan, and modification in CAD could have been a good place to begin. All in all however, I love the body, and as soon as my lost credit card is replaced, I'll most likely finally pop on one of these.

-RW
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:31
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

I'll add that the pelvis exterior is of the same shape.... Where the almost uncanny similarity lies within the torso and the mechanics. Compatibility of head, hands and ankles is the norm and was mentioned many times. Compatibility of all the rest of the body components, well that a new level of "compatibility".

Only one of 3 bodies that I have, had the screw heads stripped, as Luck has it, it was the first body that I dissected for evaluation, irony.


Additional review and modding of KP02A body to restore base of neck articulation

The double socket of neck that holds dumbles at each ends, have adequate friction for articulation. However, the base of the neck to torso maybe loose and floppy (2 of my 3 are) (Internal 2 piece torso that holds the other end of the dumbbell leaves a gap as shown in B). Grinding the screw hole protrution closes the gap of the socket and tighteing the screw behind in most cased should be adequate. However should your screw hole losses it's threads or other screw socket failure, this is a way to regain your base of neck articulation, groves are created at the front (C), holes are drilled at the back (A) The wire provide adequate tension directly on the socket and restores socket tightness required.

Last edited by BeastX; 09-01-2012 at 10:46.
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:42
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valken View Post
Fabio, I say take it easy and relax. There are some things BeastX say is correct and the same for you. There is a mantra in the mass production industry - don't fix what is working.
Sorry mate, and why I have to take it easy and be relaxed?
Did I started a thread with a very unfair, unpolite review and with really harsh words? No it wasn't me.
I'm just answering "harsh to harsh".

I never keep secret that our model is made to be compatible as much as possible with Hot Toys, not just here but in several other forums all over the world!!
To do this of course some mechanism has made with a reverse engineering.
Changing when it was possible, adding, improving, etc.etc.

BeastX have the proof of his theory, because Hot Toys Torso and Pelvis are compatible with KP02A (what a secret!!!!).
Then he's contradictory himself saying: "Note, because of slight difference in sizes you can't by default use Noland's hips and legs on KP02A's pelvis, a minor mod will be needed to do so"
So if the Noland hips and legs cannot be used on KP02A pelvis.. this means that the two pelvis ARE NOT IDENTICAL.
Or not?


BeastX why don't tell to everybody HOW MANY body in the market, share SAME mechanisms? Why don't tell to everybody that Hot Toys legs (for example) are compatible with almost of 90% of the Pelvis of other bodies?
Come on! Hot Toys is a STANDARD, so what is so strange that a lot of body have some compatibility of mechanisms? Pegs? Size or whatever?

He even arrive at some "Ugly conclusion" writing: "Drill out (Stripping) the "philips" screw head of the 3 screws holding the internal torso together, so no typical screw driver can "expose" further internals. Well, it took me all of 5 minutes dremel, to get the screw to be fully functioning again, I do appreciate a good mental challenge/obstacle. The QUESTION: Why create such an inconvenience? (I'll leave it at that)"
Like saying that KP is hiding some TERRIBLE secrets (A bomb maybe?).. Come on this is just pathetic!!!
Do you think we don't want you open easily the torso so you can discover that the torso mechanism is compatible with Hot Toys? This is seriously the "Ugly" point?
Inconvenience???? Because for you it's normal that somebody open a Torso mechanism to see how is shaped inside? Or maybe to make you happy I have to leave it open?
Do you know why this "SECRET"?
Because somebody reported us that in KP01A some of torso mechanism get loose after shipment, because the internal screw can "jump" outside of the hole with transport or "hit".
In this way we made an EXTRA SAFE assembling.
Yes yes... a very UGLY

I want clear this 100%. I have nothing personal against BeastX.
And some of his suggestion are very welcome (as a lot of other suggestions I received in this months)..
But the general "tone" of his "review" sound more like a "personal attack" to my company. It's more something counterproductive, instead of constructively critic.
This is my feeling, and maybe I'm wrong.
And if I'm wrong (IF) I'm very open to excuse my "harsh" tone against him.
If I'm wrong....
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Last edited by Kaustic Plastik; 09-01-2012 at 10:52.
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:50
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastX View Post
Compatibility of head, hands and ankles is the norm and was mentioned many times. Compatibility of all the rest of the body components, well that a new level of "compatibility".
Ok for me this is the end of discussion because it's clear that you are a fire-starter (or Trouble maker?)..
So now I copied ALL their components... yes yes.. Very true.
It's not useful at all continue answering you.

What I can say you mate?
If one day Hot Toys will bring me to the court because I "illegally" copied his design, I will come here back writing how this story ended..
But till now it seems that Hot Toys didn't think my body is a copycat of their body (and BELIEVE ME, they knows my body)..
So... I'll leave to you the conclusion.
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Old 09-01-2012, 11:04
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

You can't ask Fabio to "take it easy" when his company is being accused of recasting. As for abdomens looking eerily similar, how do reinvent the wheel?
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Old 09-01-2012, 11:30
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

well, thanks for review. Good one.

I also already got 2 of KP02 bodies. I like these a lot. Like the price too. to tell you all the truth - I dont really care about recasting, copying, not copying. All I see as a very simple user and buyer, that KP made very good body. from exterior ir looks a bit different than HT body. Interior - did not know till now that they are quite a copy.. But I dont mind I like it, I will buy more. and hope one day they will make female body before hot toys will
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Old 09-01-2012, 13:16
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

I don't think there's any doubt that this ISN'T a 100% original 3D CAD designed product. Obviously they stuck HT interiors in there to maintain compatibility. I don't really care, the market demands HT compatibility, KP answers. . . whatever.

I wish the market would demand NEW parts that are not HT compatible which would create REAL competition and drive prices down, but again, whatever. But realistically though, this hobby is so niche, competition won't drive prices down, it will just make everything more expensive as each new manufacturer makes more molds for their own parts. So, really, I have no idea what will bring prices down, LOL.

Apart from that, we've seen KP's packaging before as well.



Unless, this was a 100% CAD design too?? Maybe CAD is Italian for Xerox??

A silly thing to copy to be sure, but if they can shave a week off development time by using someone's existing designs, so be it. Kinda _____ thing to do considering Triad's already been ripped off before, but whatever. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
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Old 09-01-2012, 13:53
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

speaking as an owner of the KP body in question, I'm very happy with the build quality and product. I'd say it's a bit harsh to write it off as a copy. Yes its very similar but thats just down to popular demand. I kind of wish KP had brought something totally new to the table in terms of large muscular bodies but hey at the end of the day I managed to get a really nice muscle body that was like half the price of a Hot Toys body.

I would sympathise with Fabio on his response, he is only trying to protect the name of his company after reading, to be fair a fairly harshly written post.

Ooh if your reading Fabio (which your probably not now lol) KP should totally do a Bane body with large traps n such. Pre-empt Hot Toys releasing their version of Bane and everyone wanting to swap out the body, you'll make a killing ha.
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Old 09-01-2012, 13:59
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishHeat View Post
I don't think there's any doubt that this ISN'T a 100% original 3D CAD designed product. Obviously they stuck HT interiors in there to maintain compatibility. I don't really care, the market demands HT compatibility, KP answers. . . whatever.

I wish the market would demand NEW parts that are not HT compatible which would create REAL competition and drive prices down, but again, whatever. But realistically though, this hobby is so niche, competition won't drive prices down, it will just make everything more expensive as each new manufacturer makes more molds for their own parts. So, really, I have no idea what will bring prices down, LOL.

Apart from that, we've seen KP's packaging before as well.



Unless, this was a 100% CAD design too?? Maybe CAD is Italian for Xerox??

A silly thing to copy to be sure, but if they can shave a week off development time by using someone's existing designs, so be it. Kinda _____ thing to do considering Triad's already been ripped off before, but whatever. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
I start to be sick of all of this...
KP and Triad share the same blister/packaging company (and not just this).
Do you really think I need to copy someone packaging existing design????
We have to follow a template to stay in the standard of the packaging company.... Nothing else...
Ok... Do I need to give some extra explanations about my products? Because here we are honestly going too much far.. And I feel a bit humiliation be forced explaining even where my company produced his packagings...
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Old 09-01-2012, 14:18
Alejandro_rg's Avatar
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

Fabio, your products speak for themselves, no need to have headaches over this.

JMHO.

BTW, thanks for chiming in and responding to all of this, I for once, back you up on this.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2012, 14:31
Metron_23's Avatar
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

Don't you guys think this is a little unfair? The basic shapes and designs for all of the bodies in this hobby are near identical. Look up 1/6 muscle body ob ebay or google and see for yourself they all look near the same some even look exactly the same. The CMtoys body is almost identical to old rubber HT bodies and the Hitfigure one is very similar to the current muscle body. This KP body is the most original design we have gotten since the very first time we ever saw a muscle body and KP deserves credit for that.

Thats not to say there are not similarities but none are worth calling them a "xerox" copy especially when there are actual blatant copies all over the place for this hobby that everyone buys in droves. This body also has circle shaped pegs for the feet and it takes and similar peg to connect to head as well as pegs that connect the hands and guess what? So does Hot Toys so does Soldier Story so does EVERYONE

Its one thing to have you complaints and its another the attack a board member with completely unfounded information.
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Old 09-01-2012, 14:45
crusader1xxx's Avatar
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

And you wonder why most companies don't post on the forums...

Same sort of thing drove Louie (Triad Toys) out of the forums and stop posting.

When a manufacturer is to close to the source, its best to step away and ignore the critics. The consumer will decide with their wallets..

Why does everything have to be compared to HT? I don't get it?
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Old 09-01-2012, 15:28
edwick's Avatar
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

It seems like the original comparisons took the position that anything that's similar between the KP and HT bodies is proof that there was intellectual property theft, and anything that's different is different proof because it was obviously changed to cover up their tracks. The problem with arguing against a conspiracy theory is that any evidence that contradicts the conspiracy theory is just more proof that shows how deep the conspiracy goes. I'm afraid the argument presented makes a nice conspiracy theory, but it's not as plausible as KP's explanations.

The fact remains that KP (and ACI) are both providing a product to fill niches in the 1/6 market that HT isn't willing to do as consistently. Both companies got us a good carded base body for the super-muscular customs, at a price noticeably lower than the carded HT muscle body. Even the HT muscle body only came out after ACI and KP announced theirs, despite persistent requests for such a carded body from the community for a good long time. If HT harbored similar beliefs, they'd have done something about it already. I'm pretty sure they're as good or better at disassembling 1/6 plastic as you and if they didn't get KP and ACI bodies to pull them apart, I'd be pretty surprised.

I'd also point out that Hot Toys and ZC World carded bodies come on the same packaging as the Triad figures do, so maybe that's more proof that KP ripped off HT via Triad and ZC, or maybe it's just proof that the same people make the packaging for all these nude figures and they ain't going to fix what's not broken. Besides, the ACI Andrew body comes in a box that seems to use a lot more plastic and won't pack as many in a box as the clamshell design, so there are probably good economic reasons to use the clamshell packaging as well.
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Old 09-01-2012, 15:35
Marine boy's Avatar
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

I don't think it's fair or accurate to say some parts are recast. Certainly the shapes / layout are very similar, but this is probably due to body design having reached a plateau and there is very little scope to make anything truly innovative and maintain form and movement of the human body. Change for the sake of change is very costly to a manufacturer, and is of no real benefit to the consumer.

I for one will definitely be picking up a few of these. Good to hear that they are made from a more flexible material, so less chance of breakage. I get very nervous moving either of my T800 Terminators, as their arms always feel like there about to go.

As for the packaging, it's important to be able to see the figure from all angles, hence the clear plastic. They've obviously chosen the cheapest way of doing it as it's only going to be discarded.

Last edited by Marine boy; 09-01-2012 at 15:43. Reason: added text
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2012, 16:17
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

To clarify, I'm not quibbling over a clear plastic clamshell, that's ubiqutous in all packaging. But again, the Hot Toys clamshell is much taller. Too tall with wasted space at the top IMO. And the ZC packaging has a taller triangular base portion. So, they're not all the same.

I was just curious as to why the logo and text placement is identical to the Triad release. Same packaging factory?? OK. Mystery solved. I was more asking about the artwork. As an aspiring graphic artist myself, I may be more sensitive to these matters than most. If I made a piece of artwork and gave it to a print shop to be printed, and that shop gave it to someone else to modify to suit their needs, I would be upset. So perhaps you can understand my inquisitive nature.
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Old 09-01-2012, 16:57
Cheungkinmen's Avatar
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

If KP offers a cheaper version of HT's bodies, I will be buying. Plain and simple.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2012, 17:26
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

I've seen this sort of thing a lot on these boards (with headsculpts, bodies, clothes, etc) I think some people think that because a sculptor, or tailor, or manufacturer comes to these boards to advertise or promote their wares that that gives us a right to somehow become involved in the creative process. This isn't true. They are selling a product to us as consumers and as such we have the right to buy or not. The nice guys will solicit suggestions and listen to the point where it starts to impact their business but ultimately they have to do what makes sense for their business.. Others don't even bother to come here. How many petitions and wishlists have I seen here and elsewhere to companies like HT or Headplay (Make this character you'll sell a million or I can't live without this character) that are totally ignored by the company they are aimed at? Fab was nice enough to come here and talk to people about his products because this is one of the friendliest boards on the net and people have been sh/tting on him since he showed the first picture. Again, I reiterate, if you like the KP02, buy it. If you don't, shut the h3ll up and let the guyu continue to make useful and reliable products for the rest of us.
And Fabio, I think (or, at least, hope) Swedish Heat was being a little facetious when he was talking about your packaging.
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Old 09-01-2012, 18:28
eijjix23's Avatar
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

Hey KP. Stick to what you do. Things will be said about your company no matter if it's true or not.
You can't satisfy everyone. Let your sales speak for you company, and let the complainers complain. Keep up your hard work.
But to be honest, this is just a review from one persons opinion. He may have his points, but that's all it is, still just a review.
Don't take it so hard.

Eric.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2012, 19:09
dadrab's Avatar
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

Some folks don't have enough to do.

Why doesn't someone start a pissing contest that will cast aspersions at a good, affordable vendor offering a fine product and make them angry?

Yeah...that sounds like a good idea...


Geez.
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Old 09-01-2012, 19:11
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

At the end of the day I'm not interested in the mm difference between KP or HT.All I need is a decent body I can buy to do a kitbash without paying an arm and leg.So what is the issue?
Respect to KP for putting a muscular body that I have no qualms getting and just need to face the fact not everyone is willing to buy overpriced HT nude figures.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2012, 19:39
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

I for one will support KP and other smaller companies like ACI with my wallet.
They're doing great products that we the collectors have been waiting for, so more power to them.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2012, 20:42
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

wow.....boy have I missed a lot....to be fair Beast X is entiled to his opinion .....that being said let me add my two cents. I own a Barney Ross and two T- 800 bodies and have never thought they were copies of each other. Fabio you created one of the best 1/6 bodies I have ever purchased....you came along and revitalised my interst in this hobby that I love. with all the high rise in prices I was ready to be out of this hobby .....I want be buying much for the next two years due to the fact I am in college but rest assure I will be buying at least 4 more of your bodies this month....for me they are the best thing to happen in the one sixth world since the T-800 and I sincerely thank you....really hoping you decide to do a female body to go along with the muscle body....again thanks and you have my full suport ....not a collector but a kid at heart who love his one sixth figures !!!!!!
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:29
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Re: KP02A body review, & comparison with HT's (Noland/BarneyRoss/Whiplash) body

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadrab View Post
Some folks don't have enough to do.

Why doesn't someone start a pissing contest that will cast aspersions at a good, affordable vendor offering a fine product and make them angry?

Yeah...that sounds like a good idea...

Geez.
The "good vendor" is not here to do us favors. Instead, he's here to make money.

With that being said, there's a reason why most successful companies have a PR department and community managers. Its because designers and artists don't respond well to criticism. Therefore, they hire people to eat crap from customers and smile. A manufacturer/seller/vendor is not supposed to get personal with his customers, and certainly shouldn't get into a shouting match. That's unprofessional, to say the least.


And ultimately, a review is a review. Its personal opinion. If you can't accept it without getting all emotional and aggressive, ignore it. Simple as that.
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