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Old 12-13-2009, 20:42
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Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

By: Adam Summers 5/23/05

My girlfriend doesn’t understand what I see in Star Wars. We’ve had several soul-crushing arguments about what exactly makes this series so important to me, and every time I have found it more and more difficult to argue my case. As the maddening years have wound on, I think I finally understand the reason for this crippling handicap.

There is a diabolical twist to Star Wars fandom, you see, that defies comprehension, and yet is the life-blood of all Star Wars fans. It is this:

Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.

If you run into somebody who tells you they thought the franchise was quite enjoyable, and they very-much liked the originals as well as the prequels, and even own everything on DVD, and a few of the books, these imposters are not Star Wars Fans.

Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.

The primary fulcrum for the Star Wars fan’s hate (including my own) is George Lucas, creator of Star Wars. Unlike Trekkies/Trekkers who adore Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry, Star Wars fans hate the father of their obsession. We hate the fact that George Lucas got it wrong from the beginning, creating incest between Luke and Leia. We hate the fact that he wrenched Return of the Jedi off of Kashyyyk and set it on Endor with those tiny, furry Hobbit bitches he called “Ewoks”, which is a syllabic anagram of Wookiee if you’re obsessed enough. We despise the entire existence of literally half of the Star Wars movies, blaming George Lucas’ greed and flawed ‘vision’ for everything.

We believe George Lucas’ ideal death time was 2:07am, 14 November, 1990.

Star Wars fans also hate the original Star Wars trilogy. We think Mark Hamill’s acting was whiny, the pacing was flawed, and Empire was better than Jedi, making the end of the series a let-down. We hate the way Boba Fett died, and we hate the cantankerous, arthritic duel between Vader and Obi-wan. We don’t understand why the storm-troopers can’t shoot worth a damn, and we don’t get why “an entire legion of [the Emperor’s] best troops”(ROTJ, Palpatine) can be overpowered by a tribal society of midget teddy-bears armed largely with rocks and twigs. Star Wars fans hate omnipotent war-machines that get their legs tangled in strings, or slip on logs. They hate Darth Vader’s face and that stupid harmonica thing he was playing. Star Wars fans hate the original Star Wars trilogy.

There is also, as you probably know, a series of Special Editions that have replaced the original Star Wars trilogy, and these are also hated by Star Wars fans with an even more scorching fervor. Star Wars fans hate the glaring CG changes made to scenes we already hated to begin with. We hate that Han Solo now killed Greedo in self-defense, and then stepped on Jabba the Hutt’s tail (which we liken to Carrot Top stepping on Fidel Castro’s tail). We hate the fact that the ghost of Alec Guinness (whose name is an anagram of Genuine Class, by the way) now stands next to Hayden Christensen (whose name I tried to re-arrange into a flattering anagram myself, but only came up with “Nn…Dense Chest Hair”). Star Wars fans are unsure if Fidel Castro has a tail or not, but we hate the Special Editions of the trilogy just the same.

There is of course also a prequel trilogy to Star Wars. It is newer, more epic, more expensive, and more visually stunning than the original trilogy. Star Wars fans know this, and so we hate it even more. We hate it with the burning passion of a setting pair of twin suns. Jar Jar Binks, Midichlorians, technology that is blatantly more sophisticated than the “later” original trilogy…we despise all of it. There’s nothing a Star Wars fan hates more than a Star Wars prequel. They demystified Boba Fett, contradicted countless lines in the original trilogy (Obi-Wan: “He was our only hope.” Yoda: “No…there is another.” Obi-Wan (not in script): “Oh, right, I f*cking held both of these kids as they were born in Episode 3. Sorry Yoda, I just plumb forgot!”)

Star Wars fans think Mark Ha…uh…Hayden Christensen’s acting was whiny. And the pacing was flawed.

Beyond the movies, there are also various television-related Star Wars endeavors which Star Wars fans despise. Starting with that abysmal “Holiday Special” in which Carrie Fisher appeared drunk and tried to celebrate Christmas through song in a Jesus-less galaxy, Star Wars fans have watched and hated everything. We think Droids was a waste of time, Ewok Adventures was an extension of everything we hated about Return of the Jedi, and we’ve seen both seasons of Clone Wars which we hate because we believe them to be immensely inconsistent with the prequels we also hate.

Star Wars fans think the Star Wars comic-books are a stockpile of contrivance written for marketing purposes by people who know nothing about Star Wars. Every gimmick imaginable to bring back super-weapons long destroyed and token bad-guys long-beaten is spewed forth from these comic books, and Star Wars fans want nothing to do with it. Star Wars fans have read the one in which Han Solo works in tandem with a giant rabbit and we are not impressed.

Then, naturally, there are the videogames. Star Wars fans hate LucasArts, and the opportunist drivel that comprises most of the gameplay-less apertures known as Star Wars games that they vomit up every fiscal quarter. Star Wars fans know that there is no such thing as a good Star Wars strategy game, we yelled at our PS1 when Masters of Teras-Kasi came out, and we kind-of liked the Jedi Knight series, but not at first and definitely not towards the end. Star Wars fans did not like Knights of the Old Republic, unless they were RPG fans. This does not count. Star Wars fans hate Star Wars videogames.

The final main elixir of Star Wars folklore is the ever-growing library of Star Wars books. These have managed to make a complex main character our of practically every background alien seen in the movies, and expanded the universe into a colossal, self-contradictory maze. Star Wars fans hate this. We hate how trite and tired the books were getting before the New Jedi Order series, and we hate the New Jedi Order series for being so radically different, and not nearly trite or tired enough. Star Wars fans hate it when previously-deceased characters are brought back to life, but we also hate Timothy Zahn for not bringing his characters back to life. Star Wars fans did not hate Grand Admiral Thrawn, but we do now, because he is always dead. The Star Wars movies also contradict and completely ignore droves of information within the Star Wars books. Star Wars fans now know that George Lucas has no idea who Jaster Mareel is, and it makes us very angry. Star Wars fans hate Star Wars books.

Now that I have covered all of this, you can finally begin to compute why I can never prove to Emily that Star Wars is a monumental event worth devoting one’s life to. The very nature of the argument means I have to defend Star Wars, and since I am a Star Wars fan, I don’t actually understand how to do that.

Maybe I’ll put it like this. To be a Star Wars fan, one must possess the ability to see a million different failures and downfalls, and then somehow assemble them into a greater picture of perfection. Every true Star Wars fan is a Luke Skywalker, looking at his twisted, evil father, and somehow seeing good.

My earlier statement needs slight revision. We hate everything about Star Wars.

But the idea of Star Wars…the idea we love.
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Old 12-13-2009, 20:53
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

Special Edition: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?
By: Adam Summers
11/23/08

Hell hath no fury like a Star Wars Fan perturbed. And it was my grim duty to discover this fun little tidbit when I responded to the release of Star Wars Episode III by writing a now infamous little configuration of words entitled “The Complex and Terrifying Reality of Star Wars Fandom”. Written over the course of about an hour while simultaneously watching YouTube videos and throwing around idiotic jokes with my friends, the article was intended to be a light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek jab at the fan’s tendency to loathe certain aspects of his or her beloved franchise.

Umbrella all the individual complaints under one name, I realized, and as a collective it seems one could reasonably – if controversially – claim that the fans are united by hate.

I thought this was funny. Hell, I still do.

Within the article, I introduced my approach by referencing my inability to get then-girlfriend Emily to like Star Wars. Ironically, upon reading the piece she was among the first to not get it. She thought it was indeed another one of my attempts to get her to like Star Wars, and in fact the most pathetic one yet. She told me in no uncertain terms that it was the worst thing I’d ever written.

Three years later, it’s created more controversy and publicity for me than any other lame-... musing I’ve ever penned, and it’s even been translated into Spanish – or something like Spanish; I’m not Spanish so I wouldn’t know. In any case, I had hit a nerve. And the Star Wars community…responded.


There were Star Wars fans in forums who urged me to break up with Emily because I “shouldn’t have to put up with” her not liking Star Wars. There were others who demanded that she break up with me, because apparently I was a despicable human being who was about to explode with hatred. These Star Wars fans will be happy to know that since the publishing of the article, Emily has in fact left me twice. Like much of my life, this had nothing to do with Star Wars.


On the Internet, meanwhile, Googling my name would bring you nothing but Star Wars forums, where I had split the community in two. Ridiculously polarized, half the Warsies seemed to agree with me completely – defending my name vehemently against the other half who accused me of being a vile, hate-filled un-fan who had somehow mustered the gall to speak for the rest. Alarmingly few entertained the idea that the article was tongue-in-cheek, and just a bit of ironic fun.

Though I was greatly relieved to read that even those who agreed with it and took it seriously still laughed at what they perceived to be the truth of the matter. Randy Stradley, one of the founders of Dark Horse Comics, took from it the fact that “Star Wars fans are crazy” and that was a confidence boost to me in a time when I genuinely thought some Star Wars fan would corner me somewhere and encase me in carbonite.


The age-old pantomime of the Internet kicked in full force when (and this is years after the article was published and I’d forgotten about it), theforce.net picked up the article. Counter-manifestos began appearing (the article had been labeled a manifesto in the past, which I found amusing due to the fact that I always imagined men who write manifestos to be committed, somber individuals in bunkers with furrowed brows and diminutive social lives). These sprawling, self-righteous works leaped from assumption to assumption about me, and somehow managed to actually skim over the gaping holes in my own article’s silly argument.

“How can you hate so much and still call yourself a fan?” some asked.


“Well that’s, you know, the joke”, was my internal response. But of course I wasn’t actually going to say anything to anyone. In fact, I ignored the requests for interviews by Star Wars sites, knowing full well that they would expect some level of catharsis from a candid tete-a-tete which I couldn’t for the life of me deliver.



When these people find out the article was just a bit of fun, I thought, they will be insulted. They will feel patronized, and the fans gracious enough to have defended me in their various communities all this time will turn on me like a bunch of clone-troopers on a totally oblivious, computer-generated Jedi commander.


Then, I found out I had mail. Various real-life obligations had necessitated my departure from JIVE Magazine in what I believe to be 2006, and apparently some time later JIVE had begun receiving mail regarding my article. I’m going to digress for a moment now – having at last returned from seclusion, and humor some of these committed individuals with responses.


Here I am, Internet. Take your best shot:




Dear Sir,


I have to admit that your take on what is irritating and wrong in Star Wars is right on the ball. You've done some top-notch writing there, and that can only be the result of quite a lot of searching and questioning. I salute your prowess in making me smile while reading a rather exhaustive run-down of every little annoying thing in the Star Wars universe.



I am a fan. This Han Solo business got me really incensed when I first heard of it, and every time I witness the scene it makes me wince. I've worn down the cassettes from my original VHS version. I put quite a dent in the quality of the VHS set of the second version of the original trilogy. I used to be able to say that I've seen each of the canon films at least two hundred times - now I've lost count. I can actually visualize any scene of Episodes IV through VI in my mind - in original and renewed versions. But I still watch the films anyway.



I have read Zahn's sequel. I find it superior to Lucas's material in almost every way. I would actually like to see his Episodes VIII to X made to film - but obviously cinema is going to have to devise a way to create virtual Han Solo, Leia and Luke characters since the original actors are rather beyond the theoretical age bracket. Maybe in a Final Fantasy style ? Who knows.


In any case, I can relate to each and every point you have put down, and I do not think you've actually missed anything of importance.



Congratulations. I'm going to print out your text and pin it to the wall, right beside my Star Wars poster.



Thanks for a great read,



-Pascal.



So obviously not everybody was this nice to me in their communiqués. I just thought I’d kick things off with something peaceful to which the only real response is “thanks for reading.”



Mr. Summers,


Wow....what a dark perspective on celebrating the fandom of the saga you "love to hate"...The article, "The Complex and Terrifying Reality of Star Wars Fandom" is nothing more than, well, the title of the magazine you write for...Jive. The article is 100% Bantha fodder. I don't know even know where to begin other than to say your article didn't infuriate me, but instead, made me feel pity on you for not seeing any of the genius in Mr. Lucas' work. For every so called "flaw" or "failure" in the saga (none which I agree with by the way), there are dozens of story points, elements that make Mr. Lucas six-episode saga untouchable in the history of cinema. I'm not talking effects, or box office receipts, but the genius of how he told his Shakespearean myth in the form of the moving image.


Star Wars does need defending, not from itself, but from jaded fans like you who have grown up cynical, and spoiled and forgot what George Lucas' original vision was all about.


I would be glad to discuss with you how wrong you are with all of the points you find flawed in the saga. The true Star Wars fan doesn't look past any flaws in the saga, because there aren't any. Period. The jaded fan claims "Han Shot First", the true fan knows "George Edits Last". His vision is the vision. Get on or get off. Also, stop refrring to the saga as two trilogies, the original and the prequel. There's one six part saga, where one episode brilliantly complements the other...


I guarantee I have noticed 10 times more brilliant ideas (that you haven't even seen), than the "failures" that weren't up to your standards of movie-viewing.


Perhaps the reason you can't explain to your girlfriend why you love Star Wars is because you don't understand a frame of it.


Your hate leads to suffering. Yours, not mine. The true Star Wars fan loves Star Wars.


I love Star Wars.




-Adam












This is the kind of thing that is repeated thousand-fold in forums all over the intertubes. While I salute you, Adam, for cleaving to the notion that there “Aren’t any flaws. Period.” in the Two Trilogies (which I must stress have so little in common that to call them one unbroken saga would be almost paradoxical), I must take to task your presumption that I “do not understand a frame” of Star Wars.

Sure I do. Permit me now to ignore the fact that the article you are responding to was a hyperbolic satire. This doesn’t take away from the fact that the reason so many people agreed with it was because around half the claims I made were legitimate grievances made by innumerable Star Wars fans. The movies do contradict each-other. This is a matter of public record. Obi-Wan did hold the twins, then forget about Leia’s existence. Anakin did forget he had built C3P0. Luke did passionately kiss his own sister.


I am also tickled by the fact that you claim Star Wars to be “untouchable” not because of box office, or effects, but in fact because of George Lucas’ masterful storytelling which is publicly and critically acknowledged as the weakest aspect of the Star Wars…Sexology? I don’t think I should tread any deeper into this mine-field with you, but I think the fact that the iconic return of Darth Vader was signaled by the baffling, respect-draining outcry of “Nooooooooo” is all we need to say regarding Lucas’ ability to take a brilliant concept and then write it like he’s authoring some kind of cooky Christmas Special.

Which, by the way, actually happened. Remember that?



Thank you for finally formulating what I was feeling all along. I saw the first film when I was 12 or so and every film that followed was a disappointment. I hated them, but as you correctly stated: I loved the idea.



Lucas did a great job in creating the technology, but telling the story was better left to someone else (Disney? look at what they did with pirates! ). Lucas even admitted he hated the whole story so I guess he went for the money, and ruined a lot of peoples dreams. You've hit the nail on the head.


-Peter



Why thank you, Peter. I thought I’d slot your email in here just to drive home that I’m not the only one who noticed good ideas and poor writing in the Star Wars…Sectography? “Thanks for reading!”




Oh, you couldn’t be more wrong. Speak for yourself, which is essentially what your doing then trying to justify your flighty behavior by trying to spin to look like everyone out should feel like you do. Loved it since I was 8-loved all 6-everyone of them-I think mr lucas did the best job he could-living up to the hype that we all had created (nobody could have done a perfect job). I think your girl talked you into something that you dont really feel-look if i argued about something with you over and over again-your going to question how you feel about the subject wont you. which means you weren’t a truely loyal fan to begin with just someone who was waiting for the next big thing to like that everyone else likes too. It the most common form of self appreciation.



-Robert






A gripping analysis of my psyche here, but once again I think since this was actually sent to me, a response is being sought and I’m more than happy to oblige: Then-girlfriend Emily is not responsible for my apparent bias Against Star Wars. It’s comic exaggeration. I mean, at one point I say Knights of the Old Republic is good, but you have to be an RPG fan to like it. That’s a pretty hollow “argument”, but for some reason I’ve not found one person on this whole net of inters that challenged it outright. You are, however, comfortable assuming that I’m just ‘waiting for the next big thing’. And apparently I’ve been waiting since 1977.






Andrey --


Thanks so much for this article. I laughed so hard I was choking -- because I SO agree with you. Fortunately, my wife just accepts my obsession and even joins in with it to some extent.


You may appreciate this: about as month before Episode III came out, my wife and I were walking into Walmart and as I was trying to avoid ANY contact with the new toys -- pre-Episode I, the whole Padme/Amidala switch thing was spoiled for me by a plastic cup! -- she was reassuring me that the movie was almost out. All of a sudden she realized what I'd thought was obvious, and said, "Oh my God, you don't WANT this movie to come out!"


I explained that she was right. For the first time in my entire life -- I'd been 8 when the first film hit the theaters -- I wouldn't have a new Star Wars movie to look forward to. I felt like that part of my life was coming to a close, and I finally had to grow up. And I didn't want to.


We went inside and as we were walking around, we saw the new Star Wars sneakers. I thought they were pretty cool, so I asked one of the employees, an older woman, if they came in big boy sizes. She said they didn't, and when I expressed my disappointment, she looked down her nose at me and said,"We all have to grow up sometime."



Ouch. Skewered at Walmart.


Anyway, thanks so much for a great read.



---- Nick



I thought I’d wrap up this display of the kind of thing people are saying with another un-condemning one. Thanks for reading, Nick, and I’m glad to hear your wife lets you buy whatever sneakers you want, factory specifications permitting. I’d like to use your email, if I may, to springboard us directly into the conclusion of this current article, whose objective, I suppose, has been to elucidate people with regards to what I actually believe about Star Wars. And how it compares to what people took from that one little article my friends and I chuckled over in Sydney Australia that May.


I love Star Wars. I discovered it in grade 5, and throughout my teen years it was an immersive, inspiring universe that was never far from my daily entertainments. But, as Wal-Mart employees are often heard to say, we all have to grow up sometime. And by the time the prequels came out, I had. As a writer, I was now able to discern good writing from bad, and as a movie fan I understood the process of creating a film, and where that process can and does go wrong.


However, all of this aside, Star Wars has always been and will always be for children. George Lucas understands this, and therefore I think his biggest mistake with the prequels was obscurely shoe-horning Trade Federations, bureaucrats, and groaning political systems into what should always have been a story about a boy becoming a man. At their basest levels, the two trilogies (and I apologize to the guy who told me not to call them that) are indeed separate works with separate tones. In one, a boy grows up to be a good man. In the other, a bad man.

An audience who has already grown up is perhaps not the best one to relate to this.

The night I saw Revenge of the Sith, maybe a week before writing “The Complex and Terrifying Reality of Star Wars Fandom”, it was at a small, obscure theatre in a suburb of Sydney, Australia. We waited in line for a couple hours, and obviously – it being the midnight show – the place was crawling with costumed Star Wars fans sweating in the crowded Australian night. When we’d been seated, a half hour before the film, a costume competition was held to reward the best costume.

Uber-fans dressed as Obi-wan and Darth Maul did their best to duel convincingly with plastic light-sabres. Somebody was dressed as a storm-trooper. It was apparent that these 20-30 year olds had paid a lot of money for their costumes and expected to win. Then, two young kids appeared in front of the crowd – maybe ten years old each. They had dressed up as an AT-AT made of painted cardboard boxes. The one portraying the front half of the walker was wearing a very convincing cockpit on his head. They moved like an AT-AT, too, doing their best to appear mechanical. I applauded.

Then, as the noise of the crowd began to amplify it dawned on me that these children were being boo’d. Two kids with an original, creative costume, and an obvious love for Star Wars were harassed off the stage that night by men in their 30s dressed as Jedi. Nobody else was, and I still don’t understand why.

If I had ever genuinely lost confidence in Star Wars fans – if I ever believed that they had actually forgotten what Star Wars was supposed to be about, it was at that moment.



I wrote an article the following week for JIVE Magazine. Perhaps it was about that.

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Old 12-13-2009, 21:05
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

l couldnt even get threw 90% of this anyway if everyone hates star wars then why does george lucas have morre than 3 bilion dollars in his bank account, and 99% of that money came from star wars projects not other non star wars projects.
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Old 12-13-2009, 22:19
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freeloader View Post
l couldnt even get threw 90% of this anyway if everyone hates star wars then why does george lucas have morre than 3 bilion dollars in his bank account, and 99% of that money came from star wars projects not other non star wars projects.
The profits that he makes off Star Wars, while impressive, can't be compared to what his other divisions that he owns rakes in. Industrial Light and Magic, the premier digital effects studio of North America does near 60% of all digital effect shots for Hollwood films these days. That's a pretty good penny right there. Skywalker Sound mixes 47% of Hollywood Films; THX Sound is used in nearly all films. I'm sure the profits that he rakes in off of these venues are by far more than what the Star Wars property makes in entire year.

Also the first part was written as a satire, not to be taken literallym but of course this is the internet and was blown way out of scope. But he does make a lot of valid points. I'm a Star Wars fan, okay screw it, I'm a Fanboy, there I said it. And I agree with about 80% of what Adam Summers wrote. I didn't like George Lucas tinkering with the Original Trilogy with his Special Editions, I depised the first two Prequel films, and actually like the last one all the way up to the infamous 'NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!' line. I remembered blurting right out in theater when that happening 'That is so $*(#ing stupid. Vader wouldn't say that'. My friends that I have agrue constantly about the films and the all the books and comics. One of my friends is a die hard Boba Fett fan who lothes, LOTHES want they did to Fett in the prequels and all the books.

I hate that they still have books coming out about Luke, Han, and Leia still running around, solving all the galaxy's problems when they're in their sixties (except for Han, he pushing towards the eighties). I hate a majority of the games that Lucasarts heaps on us, trying to make a quick buck, and then blowing the entire contiunity apart with their weak attempts at storytelling (minus Bioware, Knights of the Old Republic's storyline was by far superior to over whatever Lucas could come up with) and the same goes to Timothy Zahn whose Heir to the Empire Trilogy of books are regarded as the best written SW books ever put out.

All and all, I do agree there are two types of Star Wars fans: Those who worship everything that Lucas puts out that he could do no wrong; and those that like Star Wars, but sees its faults as well as its strengths.
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Old 12-13-2009, 22:24
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

Shaggy I couldnt have said it better myself
I love and hate Star Wars with a passion I really cant fathom
I watch the Clone Wars every friday with my son and wonder to myself why I do
why is because even though the show is complete shite I love Star Wars
it why I spend 90 bucks on SS less than perfect figures and why I read the books and watch the movies and TV shows over and over
I love Star Wars but at the same time I hate it with a passion.
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:49
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

First off: Excellent article. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but it was all entertaining.
I do think that to truly love something in fandom you have to hate it a little bit. For example I am a diehard Trekkie. But I hate Enterprise, Star Trek '09, the new samurai wannabe Klingons, a new alien species each week that is totally human except for the bumps on their head (and why the f*** do the Romulans have noggin bumps now?), and if I could I'd gladly torture Rick Berman & Brannon Braga to death for crimes against Roddenberry.
Despite hating all of that I am proud to call myself a Trekkie. Just as I am proud to be a Star Wars fan despite all the retarded s*** thats screwed up the franchise (IMHO).
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:37
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

I recently purchased the two trilogies as boxed sets, as my originals had got a bit scratched, from lending them to my nephews and I have to ask myself the same questions that have been posed here. Were the original trilogy films that good in the first place? And how has the prequel trilogy ruined the Star Wars experience for many? In order to to try to understand my mixed feelings towards what had become a staple in my life I look at the way my five year old nephew reacts and acts out Star Wars scenerios. To him there is a dividing line between the good and the bad Anakin, and I am not sure if he understands that Anakin becomes Vader, let alone that Anakin/Vader is both luke and Leia's father, and that is fine and in no means meant to question the intelligence of the nephew who is really quite cluey, but it illustrates to me the problem of the prequels and perhaps the saga as a whole. The prequels just had too much information that they had to squeeze into three films and it becomes confusing even to adults. I still don't really understand the Sith apart from them being the bad guys and an opposite to the Jedi, but why do they want revenge. Anyway reverting back to my nephews views it would seem that the prequels had more interesting and visually stimulating characters than the originals, I am more likely to see my cousin pretending to be Darth Maul than Luke or Obi Wan, and yet these are the characters I at least grew up loving.
Anyway I have said my piece, and if all else fails watch Lord of the Rings.
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:46
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenrain View Post
I recently purchased the two trilogies as boxed sets, as my originals had got a bit scratched, from lending them to my nephews and I have to ask myself the same questions that have been posed here. Were the original trilogy films that good in the first place? And how has the prequel trilogy ruined the Star Wars experience for many? In order to to try to understand my mixed feelings towards what had become a staple in my life I look at the way my five year old nephew reacts and acts out Star Wars scenerios. To him there is a dividing line between the good and the bad Anakin, and I am not sure if he understands that Anakin becomes Vader, let alone that Anakin/Vader is both luke and Leia's father, and that is fine and in no means meant to question the intelligence of the nephew who is really quite cluey, but it illustrates to me the problem of the prequels and perhaps the saga as a whole. The prequels just had too much information that they had to squeeze into three films and it becomes confusing even to adults. I still don't really understand the Sith apart from them being the bad guys and an opposite to the Jedi, but why do they want revenge. Anyway reverting back to my nephews views it would seem that the prequels had more interesting and visually stimulating characters than the originals, I am more likely to see my cousin pretending to be Darth Maul than Luke or Obi Wan, and yet these are the characters I at least grew up loving.
Anyway I have said my piece, and if all else fails watch Lord of the Rings.
hell ya lord of the rings,people always compare the two,wich is better trilogy,lord of the rings hands down.
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Old 12-14-2009, 06:26
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

George created a great universe, he expanded it over more films, cartoons etc...

it's the same thing with music people love a band til it becomes successful and widely known and markets itself with many items..I say the same - for a creative person to make a living or a vast fortune from thier ideas then GOOD LUCK to them!

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Old 12-14-2009, 11:15
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

I think the frustration with most star wars fans is Lucas' inability to take his own material seriously.
Its a weird thing.
He doesnt show his own characters much respect or appreciate their place in culture.
Take LotR for example. The template is very similar yet not many grouse about Tolkiens
handling of the story or his characters. Can you imagine if Tolkien had written Star Wars?
I cant help but envy and appreciate Lucas for his initial gamble of trying to get his vision on the big screen in the first place and for creating such a rich universe.

I had the opportunity to meet Mr. Zahn when I worked at Borders. I happened to recognize
the name on his visa card and knew he lived here in Oregon.
Basically I said "Thanks for the great read and for creating Thrawn."
He was gracious and said "Thanks for reading."
I think Zahn, "Empire", KoTor and Force Unleashed were well received by fans because of the slightly darker and more serious tones.
Lucas I think has always viewed his franchise as a means to an end. The "end" being creative freedom from the studios. He's always been very up front
about that. As an artist myself I can fully appreciate Lucas' goals.
As a result the movie going experience is richer for all of us because of his establishment of ILM.
So if he can pimp out his cash cow and dumb down the story to make it more "marketable" then he continues to guarantee his freedom.
Thats one reason.

Another is George simply and honestly views his creation differently then the majority of fans.
The fans want high art and George sees camp 1950s serials.
What can you do?

Personally I turn a blind eye to the poorer decisions made by the mighty Lucas Arts/Film.
Whatre Midichlorians?
Whatre Ewoks?
Fett didnt die.
Fett doesnt sound like the clones.
Anakin doesnt have a padawan he calls "Snippes"
Chewbacca didnt make a Tarzan yell while swinging toward the AT-ST in ROTJ.
I have no problem with the Special Editions but Han did shoot first.
Hey even George hates the infamous Star Wars special and wishes he could destroy all evidence of it.
Ben didnt forget Leia he just didnt think she was a viable option. Ben was a chauvinist. ; P
The infamous "Nooooooo" from Vader couldve worked if anakin hadnt had the helmet on yet.

But again in fairness I do like alot of the Clone Wars series.
I think that version of Anakin is much better realized as a character.

I pick and choose.

Maybe someday the technology will be put into our hands that allows us to edit
our own personal copies of the Saga. Cut this...add this....
Or perhaps George will become one with the Force and his money grubbing kids
will sell the movie rights to a future Peter Jackson.

One can hope.
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Last edited by Spartan Rex; 12-14-2009 at 11:54.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:20
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

Since Star Wars Day is just a day away I've decided to breathe life back into this post for a good chuckle and laugh
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:55
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

Thank you so much for sharing. I laughed my butt off. I too love the Star Wars Idea.
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Old 05-03-2012, 14:42
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

I have always likened Star Wars fandom to a frog: dissect it and it dies...
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Old 05-03-2012, 16:09
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Shaggy View Post
Since Star Wars Day is just a day away I've decided to breathe life back into this post for a good chuckle and laugh
You must be smoking something today to bump a two and a half year old thread.
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Old 05-03-2012, 19:12
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

I love ANH, love ESB even more, tolerate ROTJ, and very much enjoyed segments of EU (especially some of the games.) The rest... Eh... Not so much. It just depends.
I think my bigger issues with George Lucas comes down to his penchant for revisionism with TOS (i.e. Greedo shot first; the added SFX added nothing to the storyline but I don't have any problems with that) and how the focus seemed to shift from telling a story to telling a story to sell merchandise, starting with ROTJ and the Ewoks.
I will hand this to him though - he's a brilliant businessman and he knows that even though we hate it, we'll keep coming back for more.
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Old 05-03-2012, 22:20
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

All I can say is George Lucas is a genius to be able to make an empire out of an idea and despite the negativity towards him is still generating a fortune out of it. Haters will hate but he's still rolling in dough!
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Old 05-03-2012, 22:36
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

We love Star Wars because it changed us.

We hate George Lucas, hence what became of Star Wars, because he changed what we loved.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:54
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?



HAPPY STAR WARS DAY!
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:07
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny88 View Post
You must be smoking something today to bump a two and a half year old thread.
Guess you didn't see that I was the original author of this thread so I can do whatever I want with this. Besides smoking is extremely bad for anyone's health
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Old 05-06-2012, 14:58
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Shaggy View Post
Guess you didn't see that I was the original author of this thread so I can do whatever I want with this. Besides smoking is extremely bad for anyone's health
I think you mist my sarcasm lol.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:25
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

The trouble with Mr Lucas is that he can't stop bloody tinkering. We now get an extra "NOOOOOO!" in ROTJ during the final showdown. Why!? It wasn't needed before and isn't now!

What further horrors he has in store for when the original trilogy opens again, in 3D, doesn't bear thinking about.

CHEERS!
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Old 05-08-2012, 20:36
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

we need to start a Star wars Anonymous group...
"hi, my name is matt...and i hate star wars...lol..but i love star wars....sigh...."



if you dont like the extra changes on the dvds, you better stay away from the blu rays(from what ive read and seen)..although..the infamous "desert sandstorm" scene is on the extras for ROTJ....and one where luke is putting together his new 'saber and giving it to R2 for later...some cool stuff....
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Old 05-08-2012, 20:45
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW View Post
We love Star Wars because it changed us.

We hate George Lucas, hence what became of Star Wars, because he changed what we loved.
That's the best explanation for it that I've ever read =) Spot on good sir!
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Old 05-10-2012, 15:47
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

It'd be nice to see the Tosche Station scenes with Biggs and co reinstated to ANH. I have those scenes on the Behind The Magic CD-ROM's somewhere.

I would have got the DVD's with the original versions on if they'd been remastered with 5.1.

CHEERS!
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Old 05-13-2012, 15:25
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

^^those scenes are on the extras of the blu rays as well...or you can youtube them....lol..
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Old 05-13-2012, 17:30
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerbee View Post
The trouble with Mr Lucas is that he can't stop bloody tinkering. We now get an extra "NOOOOOO!" in ROTJ during the final showdown. Why!? It wasn't needed before and isn't now!

What further horrors he has in store for when the original trilogy opens again, in 3D, doesn't bear thinking about.

CHEERS!
Lucas is quoted as saying that a work of art is never completed, only abandoned.

As long as the artist has control of the work, he's absolutely right on that.
He tinkers because he CAN tinker.
But the other axiom about such art is that there is a point where the artist simply has to let it go.
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Old 05-13-2012, 17:51
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerbee View Post
It'd be nice to see the Tosche Station scenes with Biggs and co reinstated to ANH. I have those scenes on the Behind The Magic CD-ROM's somewhere.

I would have got the DVD's with the original versions on if they'd been remastered with 5.1.

CHEERS!
The problem with those scenes, and their inclusion in the film (and subsequent cutting from the film), is that they essentially bring the story to a screeching halt for their duration. The movie has a tempo, and with those scenes cut out, the "beat" rolls along at a fairly good pace.
With the scenes in.....and the pacing of the shots, the acting, the dialogue....it bogs the story down for some stuff that is........well, really not that important.
The film plays much better without them.

Unless you care about Biggs at all, which is where the problem lies. The scenes in question give some substance to the character Biggs, who later just shows up at Yavin. His death in the trench battle is supposed to have some resonance but without any screen-time its hollow. He's a non-essential character in the first place.
I've heard of theories that he should have gone along with Luke and Ben, meeting up with them for part of the adventure in Mos Eisley before heading off on his own--but even then.....why? He's not-essential to the emotional build there. His death at the Death Star is hollow because he's a "nobody" given a name and a supposed relationship with Luke.....and we are TOLD to care about him, but not given a reason for it.
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Old 05-13-2012, 21:13
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Re: Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

IMO the reasons have been said already.

Star Wars is a work of pure fiction created by Lucas and not by Star Wars fans.
I liken it to a bunch of novices telling a talented painter/artist that he should have painted his pictures differently.


The SW movies were meant to be entertaining for all ages to watch but adults wanted them to be darker.
(Some parts in those movies are quite dark and scary for young fans.)
Only the older fans will complain about certain aspects of the films, etc. but you never hear children whine about George 'ruining' the story.

I actually find it amusing that fans complain about some parts not being believable when the whole Star Wars universe is a complete fabrication that was created in Lucas's mind.
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