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What are grunts wearing in Afghanistan?

37K views 186 replies 24 participants last post by  Toyscout 
#1 ·
What are grunts wearing in Afghanistan?

Disclaimer
NOT A NEW PRODUCT THREAD! Just the facts here please! If you want to discuss the pros and cons of a specific figure over another, how your brand is better than another brand or how you found a picture on google which is definitive proof that Rangers wear slippers please take it to the new product threads and argue among the fanboys. Ground rule, be polite. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Opinions supported by facts have more weight than, ”Well, I “think” it should be this way because it’s cool.”

Hi Guys;

Been inundated with questions about what grunts are wearing in Afghanistan both here and on chat. Decided I would share for those interested in doing research. I make it a point not to comment in new product threads because of the negativity that often follows when I share what I've learned. So to avoid being banned or suspended for defending myself I’m starting this thread for guys to get and share info. If you want to stir the pot please take it to the new product threads. If you come here to start crap and drama it’s obvious to the mods who’s starting what.

Everyone is welcome to share so the community has a source of info for accuracy for those interested in that. Encourage you to include your sources if you can so the reader can weigh the credibility of the info you are sharing.

Now to answer the most common questions.

What are grunts wearing in Afghanistan? (Grunts typically applies to CONVENTIONAL Infantry though I personally expand it to include those troops that make their living outside the wire in direct support of Infabtry units like combat engineers, medics, dog handlers etc.)

Multicam in an ACU cut is what is issued along with a couple of combat shirts. The current issue is four uniforms and two shirts or at least it was according to SGM (Ret) House of the Army’s Rapid Fielding Initiative office as of Sep ’11. Soldiers augment issue with personally purchased gear. It’s few and far between where conventional troops will drop $300 on a crye battle uniform.

MC helmet cover (just like the UCP version but in MC).

Plate carrier vs. IOTV?

Combat troops (those that typically leave the wire) are issued both as of sep’11 discussion I had with PEO Soldier reps. The plate carrier is much more popular according to my clients. Not everyone is infantry though or for one reason or another (shortages, chain of command, vehicle vs. foot patrol) you'll see the IOTV in use on occasion. Often it will be stripped to essentials (no throat or collar pads) and maybe just the groin pad which is a PAIN if you have to climb.

ACU vs. MC kit in Afghanistan? When for what? Confusing!

YES! Starting around Aug ’10 the Army started issuing OCP (Army acronym for MC) to conventional troops deploying to Afghanistan. If you were already there you were likely not to get a set. Venivicivici shared he didn’t get or see MC in OEF until he was relieved by the 101st. I had deploying troops to include the 48th BDE (Ga Nat’l Guard) in my shop that had been issued MC in Aug’10. Why the partial issue/confusion? Many just don’t realize how big the Army is at times. The decision to issue MC isn’t made in a vacuum. Decisions hadn’t been made on pouches, vests, manufacturers etc. When decisions were made quantities didn’t exist and so units were prioritized, some given partial issues, some got nothing etc. Bureaucracy at its best but in defense you have to centralize decisions for organizations as big as the Army. Like we saw when the Army switched to coffee stain kit and later UCP. Looks like It wasn’t until mid ’11 that there were enough MC and late ’11 until troops got issued both plate carriers and IOTVs. Before then the issue of plate carriers was haphazard and included four different types of plate carriers.

Ammo pouch observation.

Seems to be about a 50/50 mix between two mag ammo pouches and shingle/racks. Soldiers are issued both now. They weren’t always so you see a mix. Advantage to shingles is it’s easier to get in/out of vehicles/aircraft in shingles. Less profile. It also helps getting into the narrower doorways of Afghanistan. On the downside they suck up a lot of space on your vest. It’s a personal preference thing. Recent vets might have some more insight. I was told that the Rangers prefer the shingles for the reasons I describe so the thinking is sound and the conventional guys often mimic or learn the same lessons that the operators do.

If this thread/post has been a help please say so. It’s not worth my typing this up if folks don’t care. It also demonstrates that there is an interest in this kind of info as folks participate in the hobby. I encourage any OSW member to PM me but if the mods allow this thread to exist separate from the new product threads this may be a way to share info without the drama of whose brand is better or” I just want to be different or cool” which is FINE. There’s no need to feel threatened if your search for “artistic expression” isn’t exactly the same as most ground truth.

Additional input about weapons, sights (vvv shared some good info in chat last night about sights) is welcome especially if it's bsed on experience or discussions with those that have done it.

Regards,

Will
 
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#94 ·
That helps a lot Matt. PRTs have a nonstandard mission (providing security and/or training indig forces). They also on occasion get nonstandard equipment. I have a friend whose team was actually issued glocks.

That upper is NOT something issued to conventional infantry units.
 
#95 ·
Will, That headset is actually the vehicle comms headset (Cant remember the make). Pure speculation, but this guy was probably TCing the vehicle and jumped out to glass some activity. Instead of removing the entire headset, only to put it right back on, he probably unplugged the cord. We had a few guys who would do that due to the time it takes to get that thing on and adjust it.

To also echo what Will said about the peltors being uncommon, they become very uncomfortable during long duration missions. This can also be said with the headset communications such as the "Element TASC". Most of us opted for the standard hand set or a hand mike if noise discipline wasn't an issue. To give an example: If you have MRAPS with you, then noise discipline is less of an issue since you can see and hear those vehicle comming from miles away.
 
#97 ·
I'm sure the design was taken from the peltors so that the ear muffs could fit under the helmet, but with the top strap going over the helmet instead of under to allow them to be taken on and off inside the vehicle without removing the helmet itself. I wasn't able to find too much info on them, but I believe they might be the Raptor RA5000
 
#98 ·
Most truck comms sets are Bose headsets. I was issued both peltors and silynx, but I hate inner ear pro so I've been rocking the peltors for awhile with no more discomfort except the heat.

As for the guard guy, looks like a gear qu**r to me. The upper is definitely not issued and though I'm not 100% sure might be a violation of theatre ROE because as I remember it, you can't engage the enemy with personally bought firearms not fielded by the US GOV. Will, although glocks are not standard issue to conventional, they are issued on the SOF side, so it's possible his supply got a deal goin with someone, we had guys asking us for our mp5's and all kinds of off the wall crap for the "cool" factor. I prefer to carry the MK48 personally :p
 
#99 ·
Most truck comms sets are Bose headsets. I was issued both peltors and silynx, but I hate inner ear pro so I've been rocking the peltors for awhile with no more discomfort except the heat.

As for the guard guy, looks like a gear qu**r to me. The upper is definitely not issued and though I'm not 100% sure might be a violation of theatre ROE because as I remember it, you can't engage the enemy with personally bought firearms not fielded by the US GOV. Will, although glocks are not standard issue to conventional, they are issued on the SOF side, so it's possible his supply got a deal goin with someone, we had guys asking us for our mp5's and all kinds of off the wall crap for the "cool" factor. I prefer to carry the MK48 personally :p
Is there a different load amount between conventional and spec ops?
 
#105 ·
All depends on the chain of command and possibly mission requirements. Personally, mine were left in a duffel bag the entire deployment. But I also wasn't going on raid missions or anything of that nature. The majority of our missions were in the 4 days to 2 weeks time frame so what ever was non-essential was dumped.

I did see other units wearing knee pads, but I couldn't tell you more than that.
 
#104 ·
Steve - We're starting to get the magnifiers in as well, however they aren't that model, the grooved pattern carved into the plastic is an older model, and is quite often the model that is bootlegged by the HK airsoft companies. The model we're getting in is similar to the one you saw at my house last visit.
 
#106 ·
Rod, as stated above the headset is a Bose intra-vehicular headset. and back in 08-09 the surefire was issued to my unit in Samarra while we were with the 101st.

Matthew2388, Once again while I was in Iraq during 08-09 Knee pads and elbow pads were a RIF issue to every soldier. The 101st Bde commander at the time of my Iraq vacation made it a requirement that all soldiers would wear knee pads at all times while outside the wire. Even the gunners and drivers of the vehicles regardless if they would ever leave said vehicle during any given operation. Guess the man thought they were body armor or something. LOL
 
#107 ·
The My Little Pony post reminded me that I've had a mess of questions about patches and patch placement. From what I've been able to figure out:

- Right arm is supposed to have the flag and (optionally) a unit patch if you've done a combat deploy with that unit. Recently, I've also seen combat shirts which have flag, rank insignia, and nametape. Is that a field vs. garrison thing, or are there rules about that?

- Do you wear tabs on the right-arm unit patch, like the "Airborne" tab if you did a combat deploy with the 101st?

- I also remember reading from major.rod that the Rangers don't wear any prior unit patch on the right arm -- did I remember that right?

- Left arm is supposed to have current specialist tabs and current unit patch, I think.

- If you're a super stud muffin and have more than 3 specialist tabs to your name, can you wear them all on the left sleeve? I think you'll run out of room even if you wanted to, but I've never been clear on how those worked.

- As far as I can tell, the standard blouse has nametape on the right, "U.S. Army" on the left, and the rank insignia on the centerline.

- I've not seen many patches on body armor in conventional units -- are there regs on that, or is that a unit-to-unit thing?

- Sometimes, I've seen the right-arm flag patch (with the star field in the upper-right corner) worn on chests or the left-side. The rule I learned way back in the Boy Scouts was to display the flag so that the star field was always in the upper-left corner, but the Army puts the flag field on the upper-right so it would look like it was always advancing. Is there a story here?

- When did the Army start doing that "backwards" flag thing, anyway? And do other branches of the military use it, or do they just use those flag patches when they're working with Army units and want to blend in?

- Is there a standard place people put those blood type patches that are relatively common in the 1/6 world? Or are those not really used?

Thanks in advance for indulging the civilian!
 
#108 ·
- When did the Army start doing that "backwards" flag thing, anyway? And do other branches of the military use it, or do they just use those flag patches when they're working with Army units and want to blend in?
These were also worn during Operations Desert Shield / Desert Storm. It's not a "backward" flag, it's a flag that looks like it's moving forward, like during a charge.



Note that law enforcements agencies that have a US flag on their uniforms, the opposite is true... the field of stars is to the rear.

From Army Regulation 670-1

28-18. Wear of full-color U.S. flag cloth replica

a. General. All soldiers throughout the Force, regardless of deployment status, will wear the full-color U.S. flag cloth replica on utility and organizational uniforms.

b. Description. The colors of the U.S. flag cloth replica are red, white, and blue. The size is approximately 2 inches by 3 inches.

c. How worn.

(1) When approved for wear, the full-color U.S. flag cloth replica is sewn ½ inch below the right shoulder seam of the temperate, hot-weather, enhanced hot-weather, and desert BDU; the BDU field jacket; and the cold-weather uniform (see fig 28-135). If the SSI-FWTS is worn on the right shoulder of the utility uniform, the full-color U.S. flag cloth replica is placed ?; inch below the right shoulder sleeve insignia (see fig 28-136). The SSI-FWTS is not authorized for wear on organizational uniforms, unless indicated above.

(2) The full-color U.S. flag cloth replica is worn so that the star field faces forward, or to the flag's own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer's right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward. The appropriate replica for the right shoulder sleeve is identified as the reverse side flag.

:clap
 
#109 ·
Ed

Flag – Like Russ said for the one on the soldier’s right sleeve. On the chest blue field should be to left but there’s no PX in Afghanistan. You use what you have. First time I was issued a flag was during desert storm. It started again shortly after 911.

Airborne tabs are almost always part of the division patch (95%). So it gets worn on the combat patch side with the patch. E.g. the screaming eagle is NEVER worn without an airborne tab.

Soldier can wear a max of three skill tabs on the left shoulder (never on the right). It's called the "tower of power". Airborne tab is not considered a skill tab.

Combat patch is worn on the right side except for the combat shirt. Since it only has room for one patch the unit patch is worn on the right shoulder. Dumb, they should have put the Velcro on the left side but they didn’t. Some after market shirts have enough Velcro. Not common. Rank is only worn on the sleeve of the combat shirts (R side) for the same reason as the backwards unit patch, Velcro placement

Rank is typically worn on the front of the body armor if it happens to have the Velcro for it. Pretty common with IBA and Gen I IOTV. Sometimes the vest doesn’t have the Velcro and/or unit determines where the patch is sewn. This gets very confusing downrange where the soldier does the sewing (again no px). Names seem to be going away on the vests. Again no Velcro and units seem to be busy with other things.

Rangers aren’t wearing unit patches. Flag (and leader callsign if they rate one on L shoulder and sometimes chest and/or helmet)
 
#112 ·
CC - In conventional units troops don't wear call signs. If anything they wear rank and depending on the unit/op some leaders MIGHT may wear identifying kit (e.g. strobe, chemlight).

I think I'll leave ODA callsigns commenting to some of our operators. Their use varies by unit and position.

To add what I told silent, it's SL and above and special duty positions and enablers.

Specific callsigns are considered an OSPEC issue by SF and Ranger units. I know they are seen in many photos but they are either not cleared or mistakenly posted.
 
#114 ·
This is a great thread, but it really breaks my spirit. As someone who just cannot stand to bash anything that is not accurate, I am just frustrated knowing my current grunt project is screwed.

Oh well... it is what it is.

Thanks guys for great information that would have taken me a while to research on my own.

:thumb
 
#116 ·
Brother, I need to echo Will's statement here. Dont let this thread deter you from doing your original bash. A LOT of the gear I had and worn wasn't issued. One of these days, I'll have to find some of my pics and post them to give some better examples. It really all depends on the chain of command for the grunts that is the deciding factor for equipment that can be worn.
 
#118 ·
Glad I could help JT.

Don't give up. You know I have seen the most screwed up combinations of camo and equipment not on figures but on actual troops. The reality that vvv was alluding to is you fight with what you got even if it looks like crap. Sometimes the item just doesn't exist and you have to improvise.

I've always tried to be helpful to folks that want to be "accurate". That annoys some folks that aren't as focused on accuracy or my input contradicts their beliefs. It's a big hobby. There's room for everyone. Feel free to ask questions and do your research. That's how we all learn and grow.
 
#120 ·
e-man You've seen a lot of personally owned uppers? I guess "a lot" is a bit subjective. How many have you seen? My feedback is that taking one's upper is pretty rare. IF one has a command that will buy off on it most soldeirs aren't spending $600 -$1000on their personal upper which might actually get confiscated or disallowed . I'm sensing privately owned uppers is exceedingly rare. Have you personally experienced something different. I'm curious! Share if you can?
 
#121 ·
By "a lot", I meant that I have seen several (i cant count the number if times, but at least more than 10) people in the Army use personal AR uppers while deployed, and zero in the Marines. It's really easy to spot when the upper receiver has "BCM" or other company's logos such as Spikes Tactical.

The last time I was in Iraq, I saw a guy in the Army at one of the bases about an hour away (by truck) from Waleed with a MK12 Mod 1 upper on an M4 lower. I was curious because the MK12 upper had a LaRue rail system, and not the KAC system. He said it was his own that he built and got permission to take it with him on the deployment.
 
#122 ·
Cool info. Maybe vvv or punisher can weigh in. Suprising. Of course considering how many soldiers you saw you're probably talking maybe 6 in several thousand? or maybe 1/100? (Obviously I don't know but yeah, the Army seems to do business a bit differently)

Thanks for the insight.
 
#125 ·
I assume you are speaking of the "my little pony" epidemic? These patches have been addressed by the pentagon directly and also "non-standard" military patches. Regular morale patches dont seem to be much of an issue depending on the chain of command as Will noted. The MLP patches on the other hand are getting some serious negitive feedback and causing a stir within the units. Here's one of the articles.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/18/military-my-little-pony-fan-club/#ixzz210n1iEOz

Personally, I really dont care what kind of "fun" patch you wear outside the wire...As long as you do your job. But the Specialist in that photo needs to be stomped on by his Chain of Command for unauthorized uniform and being a general @$$clown.
 
#124 ·
MLP?

Officially "morale" patches were never authorized. Depends on your chain of commend whether the regulation is enforced or not. There are a lot of things going on in a combat zone that take precedence (e.g. you'll seee conventional soldiers occasionally unshaven though you are supposed to shave daily). The closer you are to the FOB, the less likely you will be able to get aways with minor infractions like this.
 
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