Early laser sights?

[John22]

I have been reading, for the 2nd time, my copy of "The Long Range War": Sniping in Vietnam. I saw a little blurb in the back of the chapter on Image intensification/Night Vison:
"Developmental versions of NVGs and rifle mounted aiming lights were used by MACV/SOG and special Forces in the closing stages of the war."

Does anybody have any info and/or Images of the items? I know that we used the AN/PVS-1 through 3 series and late model active Infrared/nightvison in theater, But i have never heard of the use of aiming lasers(except for bombs and ranging) or Night vision goggles until now.

Any help would be appreciated.

[John22]

114 views and not a single reply? Dang people....I just needed a little info.

[pukingdog]

Actually, approximately 96 of those posted answers, but they were immediately pulled for violating still-standing secrecy designations, and the posters have "been detained".

Kidding aside, the "aiming lights" may either refer to IR lights, or white lights, attached to weapons. The various "Starlight" scopes that were employed are also referred to as NVGs or NODs, which confuses the issue. The aviation-based PVS-5s seem to have arrived on scene a few years too late. The old, Korean War-vintage IR scope and light system was apparently tried out by the bad guys, a captured or "lend lease" model attached to a Mosin Nagant rifle. Unfortunately for the sniper, it's IR light source was visible to American night optics.

[Apache26]

The book "The Black Rifle" about the development of the M-16 has a chapter on the development of optical sights. Some were pretty weird and others look very similar to an M-68 or an ACOG. They were mounted on the rear sight/carrying handle of the M-16A1 and another was mounted on both the front and rear sight.

In the mid-1960's there was a huge push to develop NVG's but nothing satisfactory for field use came out until 1970-1971. These were similar to the PVS-5. They made it to Vietnam and few examples remain. The Son Tay Raiders tried using the NVG's available at the time but they didn't make the cut. I think the main problems were light amplification and power supply.

Colonel Bull Simons was very unhappy with the nighttime marksmanship of the Son Tay Raiders in training. No matter how they trained, they could not reliably hit targets in the dark. He had his command commercially procure the Armeson OEG sight which was another early type of laser dot sight. Their night marksmanship improved tremendously and they OEG sights were used in the raid. The OEG is still a type of sight in use and available for service, though I think the Armesons have been improved upon.

After Vietnam, laser optical sights were put on the back burner and the Army tried issuing Tritium front and rear sights but I don't think that was ever widespread.

[PBR549]

While I was in the 82nd, we were issued the Gen I PAQ-4 in the late 90s.

[John22]

Thanks for the information, especially from Apache26. Do you by chance know if there are any photos of these early NVGs? PBR549, what was your opinion of the PAQ-4? I mean, I have seen field manuals that date it back that model to the late 70s, so it has to be pretty outdated now. I thought that the crappy PEQ-2/not the 2A, was in service at that time right?

[PBR549]

The first PAQ-4 I was issued was tubular, anout the length of a small flashlight and maybe 1.5 inches in diameter. I remember using them when we would conduct CQB ranges. It was decent, but at the time, we didnt recieve proper training on it. We had PVS-7As wich were painful to wear as well. "Own the night" technology has come a long way.

In the 90s, the 82nd got the newest gear after Special Forces and The Ranger Regt. I left the 82nd in 99, spent 3 years at Ft Benning and saw the PEQ-2 for the first time in 2002 in Korea.



I never thought the PEQ-2 was a bad piece of equipment. There is better stuff out now, but when it was new, it was good to go.

[Apache26]

I don't have any photos of the NVG's on me, but you can see a picture of them in Stanton's "Uniforms of the Vietnam War". The goggles look a great deal like PVS-5's. If you do some reading on the Son Tay Raid you'll find more information about the early night fighting optics, but photos are rather scarce.

Google "Armeson OEG" and you'll get several hits with photos.

I've heard that the PAQ-4 was around in the late '80's and started filtering into light units in the early '90's. I had senior NCO's who remembered being issued the PAQ-4 in limited quantities (like one per squad) in the early 90's. I would rather go without a laser than use the PAQ-4. I am a big fan of the PEQ-2, but being in mech infantry, I never saw anything newer than that as of 2007.

Likewise, I used iron sights rather than use an M-68. We had plenty of those but precious few EOTECH's and ACOG's.

[pukingdog]

This thread has some info on the sights used at Son Tay - Nomex gloves in Vietnam