Army Camouflage Improvement Programme

[chris u'5]

I was just reading about this and thought you guys may be interested;

ADS Unveils Army Camouflage Finalist Patterns Soldier Systems

So what do you think of the two entries submitted by ADS?

I know there has been a lot of talk about this programme but it's good to finally see some pictures (even though they are simulated), perhaps those that are interested in this subject could post here with any new news or pictures that they find?

Personally I can't wait to see what the other participants in this programme have to offer.

[Prophet]

My new favorite.

[The Great Shaggy]

Looks good but will be interesting to see which gets choosen. I really wish I could see the other four entries

[Steve O.]

If the Army picks this pattern, at least the Marines will no longer stand out so much on the battlefield, so it won't be quite as easy for enemy observers to ID which branch they're up against. It's still a stupid situation to have four different fatigue uniforms for one nation's armed forces.

[chris u'5]

Originally Posted by The Great Shaggy

Looks good but will be interesting to see which gets choosen. I really wish I could see the other four entries

Well Kryptek have already released their entry but I didn't post it yesterday but I wasn't 100% sure that it was actually their LEAF pattern they had submitted but I'm sure as I can be now after some more research;

http://blog.predatorbdu.com/2012/01/...prototype.html

http://www.kryptek.com/leaf/

It sure is unique and it looks more like something that would be used by hunters but apparently the company has a very good reputation amongst those in the know.

I've read that Crye will not be releasing their entry to the media and there is no word from Brookwood yet, the Natick entry is expected next week.

[chris u'5]

Another interesting article on the subject;

http://blog.predatorbdu.com/2012/01/...provement.html

[The Great Shaggy]

The whole thinga bout this that is starting to get me wondering is back in early 2002 when Army Times first shiw a whole bunch of patterns that was being considered to be for the new pattern a lot were actually good and were wirthy contenders. Then fast forward to 2004 and all of a sudden we got ARPAT. Huh That pattern was never shown or released (to my knowledge) before the official annoucement. Whne it did came a lot of us was saying WTF.

Now here we are, 2012, going through the whole process yet again. ADS' pattern looks extremely good, like a mixture of MARPAT and CADPAT. I'm sure Crye pattern will equally measure up, but Kryptek has me going It looks great for hunting, but tactical situations, I don't know. And of course only God knows what PEO will release. Hopefully it isn't as god aweful as ARPAT was.

[major.rod]

Chris - Thanks for sharing. Excellent links.

From the predatorblog...

“In another interesting highlight, PEO Soldier took note in their release that they would openly contribute their findings to the other services and they would be open to utilizing the camouflage patterns for their uniforms as well. This means we could possibly see a return to matching uniforms across the services or perhaps if the findings are close, the distinct camo for each branch of the armed forces could remain but with a possibly improved selection for everyone. We are sure plenty of people have their own opinion on how this should go down in the end. We just hope the right camouflage is chosen to provide the best protection for our troops.”

Note, no plan to "copyright" the pattern or place the Army crest in the pattern...

[clintm65]

Thankfully the Army is reducing the number of soldiers on active duty, so this time it won't cost them as much to re-outfit everyone with their new camo!!!!!!!!!

[The Great Shaggy]

Originally Posted by clintm65

Thankfully the Army is reducing the number of soldiers on active duty, so this time it won't cost them as much to re-outfit everyone with their new camo!!!!!!!!!

It's not like they have a choice in the matter. Everyone is going to get cuts; Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. The thing is is that the Army was the biggest of the the four that expended during the mist of OIF/OEF. Now, just like in the previous conflicts beforehand, that the fighting is ceased there's going to reduce the force. Last numbers i heard was Army by 80K, Marines by 40K, Navy by 30K, and Air Force at 20K.

[YT74]

Originally Posted by The Great Shaggy

It's not like they have a choice in the matter. Everyone is going to get cuts; Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. The thing is is that the Army was the biggest of the the four that expended during the mist of OIF/OEF. Now, just like in the previous conflicts beforehand, that the fighting is ceased there's going to reduce the force. Last numbers i heard was Army by 80K, Marines by 40K, Navy by 30K, and Air Force at 20K.

This is a terrible idea!

[chris u'5]

Natick have withdrawn from the programme;

http://soldiersystems.net/2012/03/06...ern-withdrawn/

http://kitup.military.com/2012/03/ar....html#comments

http://soldiersystems.net/2012/03/06...-army-pattern/

Brookwood have released their entry;

http://soldiersystems.net/2012/03/06...rt-submission/

[major.rod]

Yeah, I saw this. The Army's Scorpion Camo was withdrawn. Crye was hired to creat it back in 2000 for Objective Force Warrior. It's the father of multicam. Army dropped the program. Crye kept developingthe pattern, started to market it and the rest is history.

The good thing is that if the Army pattern had won there would have been allegations that the competition was fixed. Withdrawing avoids that controversy. The downside is whatever pattern wins we'll be paying for licensing.

[goaltendah1]

The Marine Corps need to share their pattern. I know that we have talked about this before but in this current economy and with all of the budget cuts looming in the future we (taxpayers) should not be forking out more money into development of a combat uniform when there are good patterns available now that we can utilize. I know that we Marines like to have our little bit of notoriety, but it's time to put that aside for the good of the nation and worry more about funding things that are important.

Jeff

[major.rod]

Jeff - Totally agree but I think the horse is out of the barn. You have a very common sense team focused approach.

It's a terrible shame that Marines forget the WWII pattern they used in the Pacific was an Army pattern (used in Korea also). The Willow pattern for helmet covers was also an Army pattern and again the Marines used it as was ERDL from the same war.

Woodland, Chocolate Chip, And Coffee Stain Desert were all Army patterns and they were all shared with the Marines. The "unique" and "copyright" foolishness just doesn't do justice to the Marine Corps. I forgive the organization. Seems the Marine commandant at the time made the decision and last year the top NCO reiterated it as the Army started it's latest camo efforts.

Where I get my feathers ruffled is when individual Marines jump on the bandwagon. it doesn't enhance teamwork and is done from a huge lack of knowledge of what happened and how it happened.

[The Great Shaggy]

New developments:

The U.S. Army’s top officer says the service is poised to pick a new camouflage pattern for uniforms.

The selection comes after tests showed the existing design, a grayish-green digital pattern that appears on the standard-issue fatigues known as the Army Combat Uniform, or ACU, was poorly suited for environments such as Afghanistan, according to Army Chief of Staff Gen. Raymond Odierno.

“It’s the wrong color,” Odierno said during a May 7 breakfast with reporters. “It’s not the right patterns,” he said. “Every test we’ve done [says] it’s wrong. So we’re going to come up with a new pattern.”

The service may spend as much as $4 billion over the next five years to replace its uniform and related protective gear, according to a September report from the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress.

Military.com last month reported that Army Secretary John McHugh was briefed on Gen. Odierno’s recommended replacement for the so-called Universal Camouflage Pattern, which the service adopted in 2004 to replace its woodland and desert camouflage uniforms.

The Army last year awarded contracts to develop new camouflage designs to four companies: Crye Precision LLC, ADS Inc., Brookwood Companies Inc. and Kryptek Outdoor Group.

Odierno didn’t specify which design or designs he recommended, only that the existing pattern was insufficient.

“All the testing we’ve done say it doesn’t work in environments,” he said. “It puts our soldiers at risk. That’s why we changed the uniform in Afghanistan. So to me, it’s a low-cost, almost no-cost, solution to change it. It’s the right thing to do.”

The Army in 2010 selected a design called MultiCam, which is popular with Special Operations Forces, for soldiers deploying to Afghanistan.

All four services wore the same Army Battle Dress and Desert Camouflage patterns before the Marine Corps introduced their own digital patterns in 2002. The move left Army, Air Force and Navy scrambling to provide their troops service-specific camouflage patterns, the GAO said.

Government auditors recommended for the military services to work together to develop camouflage uniforms. By not doing so, they stand to lose “millions of dollars in potential cost savings,” according to the report.

[major.rod]

The results will be published 14 June (Army birthday).

I'm betting US4CES is selected. It's a bigger pixel looking version of MARPAT.

[The Great Shaggy]

That's what I'm thinking as well. BTW, like the article Will. Thanks for sharing.

[NOSAJ19]

"All four services wore the same Army Battle Dress and Desert Camouflage patterns before the Marine Corps introduced their own digital patterns in 2002. The move left Army, Air Force and Navy scrambling to provide their troops service-specific camouflage patterns, the GAO said.

Government auditors recommended for the military services to work together to develop camouflage uniforms. By not doing so, they stand to lose “millions of dollars in potential cost savings,” according to the report".

These comments are where the US should be heading. As should many others, including mine.

Army, Navy, Air-Force & Marines need to be wearing the same pattern & color uniform's, IMO. There is a lot of Gucci crap out there. Woodland BDU's were the standard issue uniform for most all in the US military.

[panzerwerk]

I recently found a set of 2001 Desert trial pattern MARPAT from the 2001 tests with the extra Blue/Grey color added , I started researching why the Marines went in this direction and found the below article ,It is an interesting read into how they decided to come up with their own uniform .

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.o..._Utes7007.aspx

I found this quote interesting :

Jones, the commandant, recently said that he expects the new uniform to save the Corps money, because it will not come with the 22 percent markup that the Defense Logistics Agency currently charges the Marine Corps for its uniforms. “I’ll pay 2.5 percent, but not 22 percent,” Jones told National Defense.

According to Army Brig. Gen. Jesus A. Mangual, commander of the defense supply center of the Defense Logistics Agency, located in Philadelphia, “we continue to partner with the military services, to find ways to reduce the cost of items we manage. In this particular case, we will have our vendors deliver the new Marine Corps uniform directly to the Marine Corps instead of through DLA storage activities, thus, eliminating this cost from the price of the uniform.”